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Author Topic: Posting a Suggestion  (Read 3346 times)
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Neco
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« on: March 26, 2012, 05:14:11 AM »

As well as me being in the mood to fix some bugs, I'm also in the mood to create something new.

I'll be actively monitoring changes in this sub-forum and posting as much as I can. This is so we can get some new ideas floating around that could possibly be implemented in a future version.



As with the bugs forum, I'm going to adopt the old "tag" system for bookkeeping purposes so don't be surprised if I edit your topic's title. Also, lease don't include these "tags" in your topic title when you create it... doing that just confuses everyone in the end.
Quote
[Implemented] - This tag will be followed by the version number in which the suggestion was implemented (eg. [Implemented][3.0.9e]).
[To be Implemented] - This tag shows that the suggestion is a pretty good one which could appear in a future version but it is currently not a priority.
[Needs Input] - This tag means that the suggestion needs more community input. It could be incomplete or a controversial addition, so feel free to come in and give your opinion.
[Being Implemented] - This tag shows that its currently being implemented and will probably be in the next release.
[Invalid] - Wut, thats not a suggestion.
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BurningTitan
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2015, 10:02:21 PM »

So yeah I heard this was the place to post from a reddit thread. This was the game I played 50% of my WC3 life when I was younger, but now I'm a game dev graduate and I can't help but to give suggestions.


1. The game needs to work towards an end after the titan has fallen behind. Too many games end when the titan gives up rather than dieing. This is a problem with how the late game works in general, and is likely the sort of thing that's solved with testing, but maybe add some very late game builder options that let them leave the base and hunt titans. This will help you avoid 60+ minute stalemates.

2. The detonate ability needs to be nerfed significantly and un-detonated workers need to give less exp and gold. The difference between this bump in game knowledge is staggering and ruins games with new players, and equally makes new titans slowly starve and have no fun. Generally balanced games have 1 feeder, so with this in mind make the detonate ability/destroy delayed by 10s and give the reward to any titans in a 500 AOE. Then reduce exp and gold from workers by a lot. If you do this though you will likely have to buff the titans ability to nuke lots of workers at once, but that is probably a good idea for the titan to feel less stagnant anyway.

3. Improve the titan playing experience. I think the lack of titan players was partially due to being alone in chat, the titans being less unique than choosing a builder, and that the titan really was the weaker side. It wasn't empowering at all play the big scary titan. So buff the titan with something that feels good and encourage titans to talk to their minions and enemies. In dota2 we have lots of crazy powerful feeling abilities compared to other games. A mix of good sound and effects to accompany it help, but make the abilities feel extreme. We don't want to be just be this big slug thing for people to avoid. I haven't played since I was younger, so you will likely more about the updated titan styles than I do, but titans need to feel as unique as the builders, they get far more customization in a sense than titans do. If you have these very unique titans without adding titans that break or make the game un-fun, you can get the same effect as dota 2 heroes.

4. A tutorial would help a lot. New players and experienced players can sort of find each other but any way to easily find each other on top of a tutorial would go a long way. Though I understand that a full extra map would be too much effort for one man, so I'm going to suggest utilizing the community for this one. Something like purges guide would be a good start, maybe even add it as a command in-game. For finding fellow players I'm not sure how easy it would be to make a ranking system that utilizes steam, so I'm going to say that maybe having a new player and experienced player subforum with events might be a good community building exercise.

5. The way a minion is summoned when a builder is killed is nice for keeping players in a match, but we need a better way to stop people from feeding minions than a kick feature. This is caused by two problems, the minion comes into play with no ability to affect the game in 40+ min games, and the issue with players wanting to go back to builder in general and suicide being an excuse to leave. The minions are sort of awkward in general, since the main titan wants all the feed and their is often no reward for feeding other minions other than heal spam. The problem is if we buff them then the titan becomes a giant snowballing monster in pub games. So..... that's not a simple problem. Try lots of thing if you have the time. I don't really have any perfect answers in mind right now.

6. Builders leaving before they feed, thus starving a titan. Luckily you don't have to do anything in dota 2 since the buildings and units stay by default, and players can reconnect as a bonus. I'm just saying that this isn't something you should be trying to duplicate.

So yeah, game design notes are cheap compared to code and assets, but I think that a direct port of Island D actually isn't the way to go, despite it being one of my favorite games of all time. I haven't used the editor much, but I do code if you want debugging or testing.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 11:13:15 PM by BurningTitan » Logged
Zpike
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2015, 10:45:22 PM »

2. The detonate ability needs to be nerfed significantly and un-detonated workers need to give less exp and gold. The difference between this bump in game knowledge is staggering and ruins games with new players, and equally makes new titans slowly starve and have no fun. Generally balanced games have 1 feeder, so with this in mind make the detonate ability/destroy delayed by 10s and give the reward to any nearby titans. Then reduce exp and gold from workers by a lot. If you do this though you will likely have to buff the titans ability to nuke lots of workers at once, but that is probably a good idea for the titan to feel less stagnant anyway.

I do think a 10s delay on detonate would be balanced. Though I think it removes a nice niche that ID has: detonating you're whole lumber base just as the titan has killed the last wall. Perhaps something else to balance things out, for example detonating a worker would give 20% of the workers normal experience in a 1000 range aoe to titans. that would give the titan 220 experience for a normal 25 worker lumberbase.
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BurningTitan
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2015, 11:12:53 PM »

I was assuming that you would still be able to deny workers if you reacted fast enough. I think that instead of giving a portion of it we could still give full exp/gold, but in a very small AOE so that the builders can still deny 50% of the workers when caught off guard, but only through good micro.

This also means that trapped workers in trees still give exp/gold when detonated.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 11:14:43 PM by BurningTitan » Logged
Neco
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 08:07:23 AM »

Hi, interesting post and interesting ideas. Unfortunately I think it's too late to much drastic changes to the WC3 version. I think what you're doing is completely right and I agree with your points, but I think they'd be best discussed and used in a newer, well-refined game. I see you've already posted this in the Island Defense 2 forum (great!) which looks unfortunately quiet as of late.

I hope the developers of future variations take some of your input, thank you for taking the time to post it.
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silentreaper
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 03:48:57 PM »

Hey Necro
Hopefully you are still around once in a while lurking around these thread, I'm assuming I'm suppose to post my suggestions in here?
1) Make level 1 walls 50hp weaker, level 2 walls 50hp weaker, level 3 walls 75 hp weaker.
Reasonings: Early game if you have a Mag + Goblin + Demo + etc camping center it's nearly impossible for the titan to get any advantage over the builders
Also, late game bases are wayyyyy too strong. Bases should act more as a "early game survivability" rather than late game. (Late game sieging is boring over-all).

2) Make titans less "meta". I know we right now have the simple nuke, heal, wind walk ability set....but it makes playing titan boring.
Some idea's
Let titans (only titans) have access to travel between caves

Hydra: Keep it as the "meta" Titan

Lucidious: Remove Nuke spell, and add passive. For every building killed gain +1 Damage. Instead of Windwalk, he get's a buff that grants +50% Attack speed and Movement speed for 4 seconds.

Voltron: Remove Windwalk and give him a mini-blink ability. Make his Heal self-cast. Any units/buildings within a 400 radius of his heal become "stunned" for 1.5 seconds. His nuke can be cast on buildings, dealing no damage but temporarily stunning them 1.5 seconds. His ultimate grants him a on-hit-passive letting each auto attack trigger a chain lightning that bounces to nearby buildings and units. (After getting ultimate, his blink range is increased and his stun range/duration is increased)

Glacious: Remove heal. His nuke ability has more range, less mana cost, can be cast on walls. Change ultimate to "reflectum". When cast, for the next X seconds, return all damage taken to incoming attackers (this includes towers)

Moltenious: Increase heal and decrease nuke. Remove Windwalk. Change immolation to, whenever a target building get's attacked it gets "fire" debuff (lasts 5 seconds) all nearby buildings/units receive 5% of max hp as damage every second (range 2x2). Ultimate: Hurls a meteor from the sky dealing massive damage to buildings (big enough range to target a base's towers).

Demonicus: Remove heal ability. New ability: Solar-Eclipse: Changes daytime into nighttime for 20 seconds. (Increase health and mana regeneration on Demonicus during night time higher). Passive: The last building hit by Demonicus has "darkness" and cannot be targeted by "repair". Ultimate: Same but now changes Solar-Eclipse to "Shadow Veil".   Shadow Veil: decreases the attack range of ALL towers in the game by 100/150/200 range (lasts 20 seconds)

Terminus: Remove Heal: New Ability: Health Totem: Places a destructible ward that heals nearby units. Combine Nuke + Pebble Toss as an ability. New passive: Tree grab (summons a tree from the ground) that changes damage to seige and lasts for 3 attacks. (Make seige deal a significant damage to fortified armor so it can insta-kill walls)

3) Make towers cheaper. (To compensate for weaker walls early game).

4) Make all towers deal piercing damage, and all units dealing chaos damage. This will promote early game bases to survive titan, while late game (with weaker walls), bases are useless and you MUST hunt the titan with units.

5) Make mag a "hero" and grant abilities by leveling up. Make strength/Agility/Int/Xp upgrades cost gold.

6) Increase satyr hp/regen significantly, remove the ability to "harvest gold". Make first hp/armor upgrade free. The amount of gold/lumber looted is equal to how much damage he does.
For every 100 damage he deals to titan, he gains 1 gold and 100 lumber.
Remove critical strike ability on Satyr (since he will now have chaos damage). Increase build time of Den, but decrease build time of Barricade.

7) Instead of receiving 90 gold at 30 minutes, make it 30 gold every 10 minutes.

Cool Have the titan gain increase Xp if
Current Game Time > (Titan Level * 2)+1.
Thus if it's 10 minutes into the game and the titan is level 4, he gains increased xp. (This automatically disables after level 15)

9) Let the Titan have the ability to "sacrifice" minions, that grant 10*level for gold.


« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 03:57:15 PM by silentreaper » Logged
silentreaper
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 04:33:52 PM »

Another thing I would like to mention....the game right now is balanced to the point where having map hacking as titan is the only "viable" way for the titan to have a fun and fair game. It might be better over-all to just *give* Titans the ability to see the entire map (not see invisibility though) and balance the game around it. (Since map hacking is so prevalent)
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