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Author Topic: Warden  (Read 5331 times)
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Coolguy
Worker


Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11


« on: September 08, 2011, 02:58:27 AM »


Warden
Difficulty: Very Hard
Fair builder which is forced to constant move. Requires gold.
Escape ability: Blink                                                                                              //Standard builder scratch. No any advantage expect fancy blink
300HP, standard regeneration                                                                                 //and nasty attack. Based on human, so it builds everything
100 mana                                                                                                           //just like magnataur. Starts with 50 food. Lumbers at 10 per 2
250-250 Piercing type attack, 3.0 second attack ratio                                                //seconds ratio. Has 1 inventory slot
0 Normal type armor                                                                                  
Blink: Moves to target location. Costs 100 mana and has 90 second cooldown.

Shelter  (Image Missing)
Basing building which used to store lumber.
Can research lumber upgrades.

Avenge spirit    
Basic worker. Dies with time, trying to destroy previous ally.                                                                                       //when dies, revives as 1 hp
Can morph into Spirit of Vengeance. (research required)                                                                                            //hostile unit, attacking ever
Costs 20 food and 20 wood, harvests 20 lumber per 10 seconds. Upgrades to 25/30/35/40 per 10.                                   //ything on sight. means if titan
100HP, -1HP/sec regeneration. Upgrades to 250HP                                                                                                  //kills him he receives double
15-15 Chaos type attack, 1.0 second attack ratio                                                                                                  //feed. this hostile unit can be
0 Normal type armor                                                                                                                                          //denied.
Allow law: morphs into Spirit of Vengeance. Costs 400 wood.

Spirit of Vengeance    
Strong ranged unit. Suffers hp degeneration.
Has ability Last Stand.
500HP, -1HP/sec regeneration. Upgrades to 750HP
45-45 Chaos type attack with 375 range, 1.0 second attack ratio
0 Normal type armor
Last stand: Restore all hitpoints. Can be used once.

Iron wall
Basic wall
Costs 300 wood.
350HP
10 Fortified type armor

Cage of Banished      
So called research center. Also provides 100 food.
Costs 1 gold 300 wood.
Researches:
1) Improved Blink  
Reduces cooldown of blink to 10 seconds.
Costs 10 gold and 350 wood.
Research time 40 seconds.

2) Shadow Strike    
Gives warden Shadow Strike: strikes target for 350 initial damage, then 250 each 3 seconds for 9 seconds. Slows movement and attack speed by 50% for first 3 seconds.
Costs 100 mana, 30 seconds cooldown.
Costs 5 gold and 750 wood.
Research time 40 seconds.

3) Increase mana    (Icon missing)
Increases builder's mana by 100.
Costs 15 gold.
Research time 5 seconds.

4) Increase health    (Icon missing)
Standard

5) Pure iron    (Icon missing)
Increase walls hp by 150 and armor by 5
Costs 3000 wood.
Research time 60 seconds.

6) Law
Allows creation of Spirit of Vengeance.
Costs 2500 wood.
Research time 60 seconds.

Sells:
1)Wand of Illusion    
Creates Illusion of targeted unit. Deals no damage but still can be used to trick enemy! Lasts for 60 seconds.
Costs 3 gold and 200 wood.
Restock time: 60 seconds. Max stock: 1.

2)Spiritual Potion    
Restores 200 mana over 30 seconds. Effect wears off on damage
Costs 750 wood.
Restock time: 200 seconds. Max stock: 3

Ancient of Justice    
So called Advanced Research Center. Can unroot to move and even attack enemies. Trains advanced units.
Has 1250HP and 10 Fortification armor type, 350-350 Siege attack type, 2.0 second attack ratio.
When unroot changes to 10 Heavy armor type with 150 movement speed.
Costs 20 gold and 1300 wood.
Researches:
1) Objection    
Increases unit's HP.
Costs 10 gold and 800 wood.
Research time 20 seconds.

2) Acception    
Allows Ancient of Justice to use 900 range attack. Can't use unroot once upgraded.            //once graded it morphs all buildings.
Costs 40 gold.                                                                                                         //meaning you can double base with 121+ gold
Research time 60 seconds.

3) Order  
Allows warden to morph into Avatar of Vengeance.
Avatar of Vengeance has 1400HP, 250-250 Chaos attack type, 1.5 second attack ratio. Has 10 Normal type armor.              //serves as typical titan hunter
As unit dies near avatar, it gets stronger, getting +100HP and +10 damage for each death. Effect caps at 15 stacks.
Furthermore, after 20th death, avatar explodes, dealing 200 damage to everything around. Lasts for 60 seconds.
Costs 40 gold.
Research time 60 seconds.

4) Rightness  
Further upgrades assassin's meld, giving them permanent invisibility until attack.
Costs 10 gold and 3000 wood.
Research time 30 seconds.

5) Improved Shadow Strike                                                                                                            
Increases initial damage up to 750
Costs 15 gold and 500 wood.
Research time 5 seconds.

Trains:
1) Assassin  
250HP, upgrades to 400HP
100-100 Piercing attack type with 225 range, 3.0 second attack ratio
0 Normal type armor
Has shadowmeld: turns unit invisible at night when not moving or attacking. 1.75 second fade time.
Costs 3 gold 400 wood 8 food.
Building time 10 seconds.

2)Avenging Assassin  
400HP, upgrades to 600HP
100-100 Piercing attack type with 275 range, 2.7 second attack ratio
2 Normal type armor
Has shadowmeld: turns unit invisible at night when not moving or attacking. 1.75 second fade time.
Costs 5 gold 600 wood 6 food.
Building time 7 seconds.

Sells:
Scroll of Haste  
Boosts nearby units movement speed to maximum for 7 seconds.
Costs 15 gold. Restock time: 300 seconds. Max stock: 1.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 07:14:53 AM by Coolguy » Logged
MetiX
Worker


Karma: +4/-2
Posts: 42


Pwning you since 1997 babeh.


« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2011, 03:46:46 AM »

Nice idea.
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JOIN THE ARMY!
ugi
Worker


Karma: +2/-4
Posts: 16


« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 05:15:50 AM »


4) Rightness   
Perna invis... sat already has that  Undecided Undecided
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Coolguy
Worker


Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11


« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 07:03:55 AM »

Satyr's invisibility fulfills needed roll for his survival. It's rather easy countered by mystic staff or pearl. And this invisibility servers generally other purpose -- troop movement. It would not be countered by msog or pearl -- maybe damaged in some way. Still player would be able to safely move army in wanted spots.
Builder itself is extremely fragile and causes no pressure to titan: only jack its got is massive 750 damage shadowstrike. After warcraft's standard magic reduction, which i believe isn't changed in ID, it'd be 600 pure damage. And so, generally, since her early basing capabilities lack a point, permanent invisibility for troops is needed step i could came of. Other possibilities would be to give them building targeted teleport, which would be too OP in my mind.
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MuDDy_PaNDa
Titan of the Abyss
******

Karma: +15/-38
Posts: 1550



« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 08:25:55 AM »

Not, another, invis.

please for gods sake.

What does everybody that makes suggestions find dos attractive into invisible sitting ducks that are going to be generally bad and not contribute to the game?
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The MuDDy_PaNDa is a new animal. He has been created by the breeding of a panda and a makrura together. Their breeding had created a strange animal covered in mud.
Coolguy
Worker


Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11


« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 11:11:54 AM »

I doubt your opinion has any value.
Therefore, if you ever learn to read, i am glad to discuss it with new man.
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Frankjg
Titanious Minion
*****

Karma: +11/-9
Posts: 661


Revenant_ at US East


« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 03:38:56 AM »

I don't see the army being able to move around very effectively with shadowmeld, for various reasons.

- It only works at night, which makes it useless for about half of the game.
- When suspecting an army, the titan will pearl around to find it, not wander aimlessly, especially if he's aware that they have said ability. Because of that, the invisibility factor becomes useless.
- MSOG will render it useless in any situation that it would work, because it simply reveals everything that's invisible within the units vision.
- In the rare case that it does become helpful, it will probably be obvious that the army is there due to blocking. Unlike wind walk, you are still blocked by units with shadowmeld active, and since it's an entire army, you're likely to block the unit if it would otherwise work, thus giving away your position.
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Smygarn
Beta Tester
Titan Hunter
*

Karma: +23/-8
Posts: 499



« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 07:01:01 AM »


Warden
Difficulty: Very Hard
Fair builder which is forced to constant move. Requires gold.
Escape ability: Blink                                                                                              //Standard builder scratch. No any advantage expect fancy blink
300HP, standard regeneration                                                                                 //and nasty attack. Based on human, so it builds everything
100 mana                                                                                                           //just like magnataur. Starts with 50 food. Lumbers at 10 per 2
250-250 Piercing type attack, 3.0 second attack ratio                                                //seconds ratio. Has 1 inventory slot
0 Normal type armor                                                                                  
Blink: Moves to target location. Costs 100 mana and has 90 second cooldown.

So this is supposed to be a builder that has to constantly move. I will be using that notion among others to make my points as I explain everything seperately. First off, I see no reason as to why this builder has to constantly move about - does she get some benefit when doing so? If not, I only see that idea as a liability which is NOT a good thing when trying to make a race players will be impressed about and want to use. Just imagine:
Hey everyone, check out this new awesome builder that has to move around or she'll get penalized for who knows what.

Anyways, I'll be starting:
The builder herself seems okay, the higher damage looks bearable but I see no reason to give her that damage right away if she isnt going to be using it for any solid reason. Wasnt she supposed to move, not attack?
The Blink is an absurd ability I think you should replace. Because it simply does not belong in ID. I know we have Voltron and Faerie, that still wont make me accept Blink. It does not really help your builder either unless its a longer range, that you of course forgot to specify just how long. Faerie has both panic and Blink, and Panic gets you further than a blink does. Blink only gets you a shorter instant distance. At mid, that wont do anything.

I will give you 10 points to start with, and for each judge I will give or retract points. If I hit 0 points, I will stop the playthrough and simply accept this suggestion sucks altogether. The builder, costed you 1 point for blink.
9/10 = (-1)

Shelter  (Image Missing)
Basing building which used to store lumber.
Can research lumber upgrades.

How lovely with a missing icon, but whatever. As you mentioned, this would be the typical 2x2 shelter where you train workers. I do not think I need to do anything here, so moving on.

Avenge spirit    
Basic worker. Dies with time, trying to destroy previous ally.                                                                                       //when dies, revives as 1 hp
Can morph into Spirit of Vengeance. (research required)                                                                                            //hostile unit, attacking ever
Costs 20 food and 20 wood, harvests 20 lumber per 10 seconds. Upgrades to 25/30/35/40 per 10.                                   //ything on sight. means if titan
100HP, -1HP/sec regeneration. Upgrades to 250HP                                                                                                  //kills him he receives double
15-15 Chaos type attack, 1.0 second attack ratio                                                                                                  //feed. this hostile unit can be
0 Normal type armor                                                                                                                                          //denied.
Allow law: morphs into Spirit of Vengeance. Costs 400 wood.

Wait, what? Dies with time, trying to destroy previous ally? What does that mean? Revives with 1 hit point? Did you just decide to rush through with the units? Cause this seems horribly explained and ordered. Upgrades to 25/30/25/40 per 10. sight. means if titan... Okay, you lost me. I cant follow through with what you are trying to explain right here, I dont see any point to half of what is written since its out of order, the workers do not need damage, especially with that low, and they cost wood to morph which requires an upgrade to be researched first. The research upgrade is probably the most well explained part here, but I will take another point from you, because of your horrid explanation and the useless damage.

Given from the impression of what I can make out, this worker dies over time so what good will 15 damage do, in numbers of about at most 7, even if they get around to attacking a minion. 100 hit points with -1 hit point gets them to live 100 seconds, and in that time, you have a very situational strategy to use them for, if you even consider them to be that valuable. Better put the bastards on labor.
1 Point taken.

8/9 = (-1)

Spirit of Vengeance    
Strong ranged unit. Suffers hp degeneration.
Has ability Last Stand.
500HP, -1HP/sec regeneration. Upgrades to 750HP
45-45 Chaos type attack with 375 range, 1.0 second attack ratio
0 Normal type armor
Last stand: Restore all hitpoints. Can be used once.


Oddly enough, this one seems more organized than its worker half. Cause here you make it more clear how the worker is going to work. But then again, the hp degeneration and lumber cost does not encourage using these spirits very often, therefore making them far more situational than armies in ID already, which are already situational.
But because you did explain this one better, I will not take any points from this one. With a little work, it can be a good unit.

Iron wall
Basic wall
Costs 300 wood.
350HP
10 Fortified type armor

Well I dont see how this is a basic wall, given how it has 350 hp and 10 fortified armor and no upgraded form to go to. It looks like a very weak and costing alternative, and thats not very good. Every input into this suggestion has a conceptual penalty to it, and I dont see how that is going to make this builder fun to play. Its cost is not very encouraging either since its proportionally as costing as the standard upgraded wall, but aproximetly half as strong as the others.
I will take 1 point from this wall, despite having skimmed through and seen its upgrade available in the RC, cause who in their right mind would provide an upgrade that gives the walls back their standard hit points and armor for 3000 lumber.. in an RC that costs gold too. Oh i'll get back to that RC, since its just after this wall.

7/8 = (-1)

Cage of Banished      
So called research center. Also provides 100 food.
Costs 1 gold 300 wood.
Researches:

Before we hit the researches seperately explained, I would like to say that taking gold costs for an RC is only going to make this builder even less fun to play. I dont understand why you say this builder has to move about for its concept when you put all these penalties onto her. Did you want her to run about trying to fight her own penalties while she is supposed to be helping the other builders fight a titan that is already mowing through their defenses? Thus far, she seems really penalized and therefore boring, and this gold cost on the RC expresses that quite well. 1 point taken.

6/7 = (-1)

1) Improved Blink  
Reduces cooldown of blink to 10 seconds.
Costs 10 gold and 350 wood.
Research time 40 seconds.

But awh, so nice of you. How sweet of you to give her an upgrade that reduces the cooldown on the blink so she can use it again to help her get away from a titan, or cross terrain easier. Only... she doesnt have the mana to afford a second blink for 100 SECONDS due to her mana regen! 10 gold for a second blink is not only pointless since what good will that do, while that gold could be spent elsewhere. Why should I get this upgrade when I could get shadow strike instead? I would have recommended you put the blink on 10 seconds and remove this stupid upgrade, because it does nothing to help her. You have to spend 25 gold on two upgrades to get in two blinks, otherwise the cd or mana regen makes the other upgrade obsolete. GENIUS planning, 1 point taken.

5/6 = (-1)

2) Shadow Strike    
Gives warden Shadow Strike: strikes target for 350 initial damage, then 250 each 3 seconds for 9 seconds. Slows movement and attack speed by 50% for first 3 seconds.
Costs 100 mana, 30 seconds cooldown.
Costs 5 gold and 750 wood.
Research time 40 seconds.

Going by proportional thinking, this ability is much more deadly than any supporting spell currently in ID and is available for 6 gold including the RC. Just what were you thinking when you wrote this one, cause its the first input in this suggestion that makes me want to use her, which is a facelift to an otherwise embarassing point until now. Slightly Overpowered for its availability, but still credible, I will award you 1 point for Shadow Strike being the most awesome input until here.

6/5 = (+1)

3) Increase mana    (Icon missing)
Increases builder's mana by 100.
Costs 15 gold.
Research time 5 seconds.

Yeah, read the blink upgrade. I took these two upgrades in one smack, so it would be unfair of me to take a point here. Completely obsolete benefit unless you get both upgrades, which takes 25 gold... for an extra blink.

4) Increase health    (Icon missing)
Standard

I will assume that this is the typical hit point upgrade for the main builder in the RC. Nothing in particular, i'll leave it alone.

5) Pure iron    (Icon missing)
Increase walls hp by 150 and armor by 5
Costs 3000 wood.
Research time 60 seconds.

In coordination with the walls, this upgrade's only purpose is to restore the walls back to the standard. Pointless, and by the point this happens with that cost, she will likely choose to spend the lumber on something else and rely on the magna and demonologist walls instead. No point taken, cause it was inflicted already with the walls themselves losing a point.

6) Law
Allows creation of Spirit of Vengeance.
Costs 2500 wood.
Research time 60 seconds.

Too expensive, yet will probably be the second and final upgrade she'll get because the other three upgrades are pointless.
I have to aplaud you. 3 upgrades that do nothing but restore her to the standard, that takes some brilliant concept to make up.
I will not take a point from Law being absurdly expensive, but I decided to take another point simply because of the lack of meaning the 3 mentioned upgrades have.

5/6 = (-1)

Sells:
1)Wand of Illusion    
Creates Illusion of targeted unit. Deals no damage but still can be used to trick enemy! Lasts for 60 seconds.
Costs 3 gold and 200 wood.
Restock time: 60 seconds. Max stock: 1.


I see no point to this illusion wand. Not only does the RC cost gold, but you expect players to be willing to throw gold to get a temporary illusion too. Let me remind you that other players cant use the illusion because the illusions use abilities even just for the graphical effect to draw any real attention in the case of an escape dilemma. In the case of a lure, its even situational with the gold cost. Gold is acquired by risking your neck at the mound, and giving it up for a 60 second illusion that might accomplish nothing, does nothing to impress me and make me want to play her.
1 point taken.

4/5 = (-1)

2)Spiritual Potion    
Restores 200 mana over 30 seconds. Effect wears off on damage
Costs 750 wood.
Restock time: 200 seconds. Max stock: 3


Good idea with the max stock being past 3, cause it can be a bitch if you forget to buy it whenever it becomes available and thus wasting time that could go to the next items cooldown. But, you do realize that although this potion gives you 200 mana over 30 seconds which is a long time and no mentioned cooldown for the next potion, but its also terribly expensive. This potions best usage for the warden is to recover mana for rapid blink reuse. 750 mana for 2 possible blinks is quite situational, but can shine some light of usage to the blink. What I dont like is how you seem so centered on blinks for her and how many of the upgrades revolve on raising the usage potential of a blink and ending up condracting each other, when blink is already a cheap ability that wont give her any identity in the game.
I wont take any points, cause this potion is honestly the only other means of investing the lumber effectively and your concept needs any usage it can get.

Ancient of Justice    
So called Advanced Research Center. Can unroot to move and even attack enemies. Trains advanced units.
Has 1250HP and 10 Fortification armor type, 350-350 Siege attack type, 2.0 second attack ratio.
When unroot changes to 10 Heavy armor type with 150 movement speed.
Costs 20 gold and 1300 wood.

Raise the cost to 25 gold atletast, and give it some damn movement speed. 150 less than half the speed builders walk normally in, and with the arcs size it cant fit through 2x2 diagonal holes, so the titan can easily avoid it. Funny thing is, when this arcs damage becomes useful is also the point where the base is already LOST! Damage on an ARC that you will want to keep hidden no matter what is just pointless, and the speed makes it even worse.
1 point taken.

3/4 = (-1)

Researches:
1) Objection    
Increases unit's HP.
Costs 10 gold and 800 wood.
Research time 20 seconds.

How much hit points? An upgrade normally explains the benefit in the upgrade panel, not in the units panel. I know the upgrade gives 150 if I read the units description all over, but what if this upgrade has no relation to that? Then how much would it give? Since it says "unit's", it refers to maybe all the units? If its a global upgrade, the increased hp could at least be mentioned here.
I'll be nice and spare you a point, cause it seems like one of the researches that will end up being more used, even with the gold cost.

2) Acception    
Allows Ancient of Justice to use 900 range attack. Can't use unroot once upgraded.            //once graded it morphs all buildings.
Costs 40 gold.                                                                                                         //meaning you can double base with 121+ gold
Research time 60 seconds.

Pointless upgrade. An ARC doesnt need to deal damage because you will only get one of them, and going by that you wont have any real place for it given its 3x3 standard size. It comes late, it has to upgrade itself with 40 Freaking gold, cant unroot anymore and has no encouragement to be actively used in base defense until that 40 gold has been spent, which very likely will be spent on something else. Its credible due to its damage, but thats it. I dont like it, it shouldnt be considered, 1 point taken.

2/3 = (-1)

3) Order  
Allows warden to morph into Avatar of Vengeance.
Avatar of Vengeance has 1400HP, 250-250 Chaos attack type, 1.5 second attack ratio. Has 10 Normal type armor.              //serves as typical titan hunter
As unit dies near avatar, it gets stronger, getting +100HP and +10 damage for each death. Effect caps at 15 stacks.
Furthermore, after 20th death, avatar explodes, dealing 200 damage to everything around. Lasts for 60 seconds.
Costs 40 gold.
Research time 60 seconds.


Boring! again, costing 40 gold for something that requires units around you to die in order to provide you with strength, she's easily killed anyway. The satyr remains more deadly even if she's in avatar form because the sat can escape. You however, have to rely on a single blink if you are chased. The satyr can crit for thousands of damage, can blur to avoid a poke and draw the titans attention off from himself. The Warden only makes her out to be a target like this, and an easily killed one at that. You do reckon that this upgrade takes 60 gold to get if you ignore everything else. The ability revolves around getting stronger when the titan feeds on scrubs around you, and this encourages EXP feeding. I dont like it. 1 point taken.

1/2 = (-1)

4) Rightness  
Further upgrades assassin's meld, giving them permanent invisibility until attack.
Costs 10 gold and 3000 wood.
Research time 30 seconds.

You could place this perhaps below the actual assassins after you introduce them so we can understand who is getting this. For the sake of the playthrough, I will ignore that, this upgrades insane lumber cost like most other upgrades that can be seen here. 3000 lumber units are prices offered for a unique upgrade, something you will want to consider in most situations. Take Double Summons. It costs 3000 lumber but doubles the demons offensive value by doubling the amount of summons, and this lets him confront a minion alone. Take that into account and imagine an upgrade that restores walls back to their standard value. Yeah, breathtaking isn't it?

5) Improved Shadow Strike                                                                                                            
Increases initial damage up to 750
Costs 15 gold and 500 wood.
Research time 5 seconds.

Ooh, cool. I thought you would forget about this shadow strike and leave it in its first form, but the initial damage seems to be raised by 400. Credible for its cost, this one im willing to grant you a point for. But hey, I left a point because of the sake of the playthrough, so i'll just give nothing and take nothing.

Trains:
1) Assassin  
250HP, upgrades to 400HP
100-100 Piercing attack type with 225 range, 3.0 second attack ratio
0 Normal type armor
Has shadowmeld: turns unit invisible at night when not moving or attacking. 1.75 second fade time.
Costs 3 gold 400 wood 8 food.
Building time 10 seconds.

Good lord, this is a bad unit. A unit that costs gold to train, you would expect it to be something that fulfills its situational investment, and you get an assassin that deals 100 damage every 3 seconds in melee range. only having 250 hit points that can be upgraded to 400 (Prioritize where these facts are mentioned for crying out loud. This should be mentioned in the upgrade itself, not here!). It can shadowmeld to become invisible, and with a 10 gold and 3000 lumber investment (Whoo!), they can move around while invisible. Let me just tell you that an army like this relies on surprise and killing fast. You can get 18 Assassins if you ignore workers (a good trade in comparison really), and this leads to one more problem. Constriction. with only 225 range, you can only get about 10 of them attacking the minion since the rest will block each other and your main builder is likely in this mess of assassins. Even the upgraded assassin has only 50 more range, and you will still need to cram in around the minion at which point he already knows he's being hugged by unfriendly hands. These units serve much better as ramp blockades than what their name implies.
1 final point taken.

0/1 = (-1)
Now that you have no points left, i'll skim through the rest of the concept and then give my last opinion.

2)Avenging Assassin  
400HP, upgrades to 600HP
100-100 Piercing attack type with 275 range, 2.7 second attack ratio
2 Normal type armor
Has shadowmeld: turns unit invisible at night when not moving or attacking. 1.75 second fade time.
Costs 5 gold 600 wood 6 food.
Building time 7 seconds.

Pointless and not much better than the regular assassin. Costs gold, situational as hell.

Sells:
Scroll of Haste  
Boosts nearby units movement speed to maximum for 7 seconds.
Costs 15 gold. Restock time: 300 seconds. Max stock: 1.

15 gold, you gotta be a genius to give 15 gold for max ms... for 7 seconds.
GENIUS!

000=============================000

Worthless all in all. Too many abilities and upgrades contradict each other, and the units themselves feel so penalized that you would spend more time fighting your own penalties rather than using the unique sides of the warden to make an impact in the game. What I see here is an army builder mirroring the satyr in too many ways.

I do not approve of said concept. Thumbs down.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 08:07:46 AM by Smygarn » Logged


The first thing you do when you get in your hotel room is to put away your stuff, thats the first thing you do is put away your stuff;
I'll put some stuff here, i'll put some some stuff down here, here's another place for some stuff, I'll put some stuff over there, you put your stuff over there and i'll put my stuff over here. heres ano-
Hey! We got more places than we got stuff! We're gonna have to buy more stu
sburnett21
Spearloc
***

Karma: +4/-10
Posts: 293



« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 06:19:06 PM »

This looks like you tried to make over-complicated ideas for simple things, such as the workers. They'd better be pretty damn good if they die gradually.  Also, why do you stress the blink so much? its partially useless, especially if the titan can just stun you, and walk up to you. Blink is a very useless skill in this game, except in say 5 different circumstances, out of 100's, if not 1000's. So you tried to take parts of other builders and comble them together, such as the avatar, and the invis. They work on others because they fit the build.
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http://www.islanddefense.org/forum/index.php/topic,2075.0.html

Quote from: theorchero
We need summoning powder first.

We make it from the blood of a chocobo, bone powder of a Bremetar, the fine ass hairs of a P0ny, and congealed heart of an Accer.

Plus a couple oranges, a slice of bread, and a single peanut.
Quote from: Neco
Copying a certain arrangement of bytes in a manner dictated by other users isn't stealing.
Coolguy
Worker


Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11


« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 11:47:32 PM »

I don't see the army being able to move around very effectively with shadowmeld, for various reasons.

- It only works at night, which makes it useless for about half of the game.
- When suspecting an army, the titan will pearl around to find it, not wander aimlessly, especially if he's aware that they have said ability. Because of that, the invisibility factor becomes useless.
- MSOG will render it useless in any situation that it would work, because it simply reveals everything that's invisible within the units vision.
- In the rare case that it does become helpful, it will probably be obvious that the army is there due to blocking. Unlike wind walk, you are still blocked by units with shadowmeld active, and since it's an entire army, you're likely to block the unit if it would otherwise work, thus giving away your position.
I never wanted invisibility to be a ambush factor. It's purpose -- once again -- not to silently hit titan while he is sieging. I myself want to prevent this kind of offense. Its rather made to transport army to a point there titan could be strike.
I do realize he can random pearl them at any point of map -- thus getting knowledge where they are, trying to gang them. Still builder has many tools to prevent that: split army, place them in juke points, just run from titan, forcing him to lose time catching ghosts.
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Coolguy
Worker


Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11


« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 11:55:52 PM »

This looks like you tried to make over-complicated ideas for simple things, such as the workers. They'd better be pretty damn good if they die gradually.  Also, why do you stress the blink so much? its partially useless, especially if the titan can just stun you, and walk up to you. Blink is a very useless skill in this game, except in say 5 different circumstances, out of 100's, if not 1000's. So you tried to take parts of other builders and comble them together, such as the avatar, and the invis. They work on others because they fit the build.
Because its partially useless and only way of warden staying alive. She is meant to be extremely fragile, leading to extremely safe play. Her dying workers is needed concept for constant micromanagement of shelters. She is either forced to manually deny dying workers with more healthy one, or looking for new lumber base. And no, sorry, i don't think i tried to take parts of other builders. They serve completely different purpose.
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sburnett21
Spearloc
***

Karma: +4/-10
Posts: 293



« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2011, 05:07:39 AM »

This looks like you tried to make over-complicated ideas for simple things, such as the workers. They'd better be pretty damn good if they die gradually.  Also, why do you stress the blink so much? its partially useless, especially if the titan can just stun you, and walk up to you. Blink is a very useless skill in this game, except in say 5 different circumstances, out of 100's, if not 1000's. So you tried to take parts of other builders and comble them together, such as the avatar, and the invis. They work on others because they fit the build.
Because its partially useless and only way of warden staying alive. She is meant to be extremely fragile, leading to extremely safe play. Her dying workers is needed concept for constant micromanagement of shelters. She is either forced to manually deny dying workers with more healthy one, or looking for new lumber base. And no, sorry, i don't think i tried to take parts of other builders. They serve completely different purpose.
blink is gonna save her life?
WOTW - trumped
no-one would want to play this,  because no-one would want to have to constantly mirco-manage some freaken workers. gold would be used as lumber, and kill this builder. Who would rather have to constantly mirco-manage, when they don't have to on other builders?

EDIT: Also, not that it really matters, but, how does a night-elven warden fit into island defense?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 05:10:44 AM by sburnett21 » Logged

http://www.islanddefense.org/forum/index.php/topic,2075.0.html

Quote from: theorchero
We need summoning powder first.

We make it from the blood of a chocobo, bone powder of a Bremetar, the fine ass hairs of a P0ny, and congealed heart of an Accer.

Plus a couple oranges, a slice of bread, and a single peanut.
Quote from: Neco
Copying a certain arrangement of bytes in a manner dictated by other users isn't stealing.
Smygarn
Beta Tester
Titan Hunter
*

Karma: +23/-8
Posts: 499



« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2011, 05:15:20 AM »

Why do you need to ask me how old I am? Do you take my opinion to be childish and made up against yours? I've had more years of experience than you have and I know when I see a flawed concept.
How you center yourself on the blink as an upgradeable escape ability, but a blink does not work that way. A blink is not going to help you get away from a Titan, it is only going to take you a short distance, and this is a situational means of getting behind a wall before you can be slowed.

How you focus on warrior units having shadowmeld and later permament invisibility and not making them a hit hard but fragile unit is going to make them a very situational unit you would rather keep off for the workers you need to get, due to all these stupidly expensive upgrades.

I gave you what you wanted, an honest opinion to point out problems and help it become a better race. However, since your builder has so many contradictions I dont see any easy ways to make it a stable builder, its too situational and penalized to be a builder that can be fun playing.
The goal of a suggestion is to impress the community into wanting it used for Island Defense. Did you think a mass of subpar penalties and a blink is going to achieve that, even when all the upgrades mainly focus on restoring the standard?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 05:17:49 AM by Smygarn » Logged


The first thing you do when you get in your hotel room is to put away your stuff, thats the first thing you do is put away your stuff;
I'll put some stuff here, i'll put some some stuff down here, here's another place for some stuff, I'll put some stuff over there, you put your stuff over there and i'll put my stuff over here. heres ano-
Hey! We got more places than we got stuff! We're gonna have to buy more stu
Frankjg
Titanious Minion
*****

Karma: +11/-9
Posts: 661


Revenant_ at US East


« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 01:54:50 PM »

I don't see the army being able to move around very effectively with shadowmeld, for various reasons.

- It only works at night, which makes it useless for about half of the game.
- When suspecting an army, the titan will pearl around to find it, not wander aimlessly, especially if he's aware that they have said ability. Because of that, the invisibility factor becomes useless.
- MSOG will render it useless in any situation that it would work, because it simply reveals everything that's invisible within the units vision.
- In the rare case that it does become helpful, it will probably be obvious that the army is there due to blocking. Unlike wind walk, you are still blocked by units with shadowmeld active, and since it's an entire army, you're likely to block the unit if it would otherwise work, thus giving away your position.
I never wanted invisibility to be a ambush factor. It's purpose -- once again -- not to silently hit titan while he is sieging. I myself want to prevent this kind of offense. Its rather made to transport army to a point there titan could be strike.
I do realize he can random pearl them at any point of map -- thus getting knowledge where they are, trying to gang them. Still builder has many tools to prevent that: split army, place them in juke points, just run from titan, forcing him to lose time catching ghosts.
I know exactly what you meant. Let me try to explain it further to be more clear.

- The first point I made was pretty obvious. Depending what time of day your game ends, shadowmeld will be useless about half of the time.

- As someone that primarily plays titan, I can tell you that it's pretty obvious when a builder is going to make an army. A titan with a keen eye can estimate how much gold builders with army capabilities have gotten. That being said, a minion that has been wandering is an obvious target and the titan will keep a close eye on him, most likely pearling his destination before he would send the minion there.

- The MSOG factor is also very obvious.

- The rare case being that you are attempting to move your army and the titan wanders in your direction. If he hasn't already become aware of your army, you can quickly press shadowmeld and you will be safe. My point was that an entire army shadowmelding in an emergency situation would be clustered. When the titan crosses by, he will be walking around a big wad of nothing. That's obviously something shadowmelded. Satyr can be found this way from time to time, so an army would be very obvious.

I hope that's more clear.



You also mentioned trapping. I can see this being usefull, but again, it's restricted to very few situations. Baiting may work, but when in pursuit of something a titan with brains will pearl ahead of him in order not to lose him, thus revealing your army.


This suggestion could use some work overall, but I actually do like it. Just thought I would give you a titan's point of view on things.
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theholysmighter
Titanious Minion
*****

Karma: +8/-37
Posts: 758



« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 03:36:08 PM »

this builder is  thumbs down
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MrDuck
Speedy Turtle
**

Karma: +4/-2
Posts: 132



« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 06:26:41 AM »


No seriously. Another Invis Builder?
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sburnett21
Spearloc
***

Karma: +4/-10
Posts: 293



« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 12:21:13 PM »


No seriously. Another Invis Builder?
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http://www.islanddefense.org/forum/index.php/topic,2075.0.html

Quote from: theorchero
We need summoning powder first.

We make it from the blood of a chocobo, bone powder of a Bremetar, the fine ass hairs of a P0ny, and congealed heart of an Accer.

Plus a couple oranges, a slice of bread, and a single peanut.
Quote from: Neco
Copying a certain arrangement of bytes in a manner dictated by other users isn't stealing.
MuDDy_PaNDa
Titan of the Abyss
******

Karma: +15/-38
Posts: 1550



« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2011, 03:03:51 PM »


No seriously. Another Invis Builder?
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The MuDDy_PaNDa is a new animal. He has been created by the breeding of a panda and a makrura together. Their breeding had created a strange animal covered in mud.
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