Island Defense
March 21, 2019, 05:45:12 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: not so new version:  3.0.6G4, 3.0.8d
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Island Defense 3.1.0a - Smygarn (Released)  (Read 14114 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Zen1400
Beta Tester
Titan of the Abyss
*

Karma: +57/-58
Posts: 2250


« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2011, 05:22:29 PM »

Since arguing getting more lumber is obviously stupid and such, all buildings should give 5 more gold than they currently give to titan because getting more gold is better.
Logged

I is pro


The Farmer
Coaster_Man
Titan of the Abyss
******

Karma: +26/-18
Posts: 1233

Self Moderator


« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2011, 05:52:05 PM »

Since arguing getting more lumber is obviously stupid and such, all buildings should give 5 more gold than they currently give to titan because getting more gold is better.
I understand your sarcasm, but still
Logged

Pirate is an octopus in disguise!
Critikill
Spearloc
***

Karma: +2/-51
Posts: 165


« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2011, 09:10:18 PM »

Since arguing getting more lumber is obviously stupid and such, all buildings should give 5 more gold than they currently give to titan because getting more gold is better.
Since I know it's sarcasm, and sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet, I'm going to say you completely missed the point.
Logged

Zen1400
Beta Tester
Titan of the Abyss
*

Karma: +57/-58
Posts: 2250


« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2011, 10:34:06 PM »

The point of arguing over something that actually effects game balance, yeah definitely missed it.
Logged

I is pro


The Farmer
Cruncher
Titanious Minion
*****

Karma: +17/-29
Posts: 877


I'm so pro you don't even think i am as such.


« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 09:43:34 AM »

Unless I'm completely stupid, last time I checked in Neco's version, Pizzly gave 25 and mag gave 15.
Logged


if u dont like it and you think its unbalance, then YOU CAN GO PLAY CHESS!
Stop being so pro
Coaster_Man
Titan of the Abyss
******

Karma: +26/-18
Posts: 1233

Self Moderator


« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2011, 12:44:50 PM »

Unless I'm completely stupid, last time I checked in Neco's version, Pizzly gave 25 and mag gave 15.

Correct.
Logged

Pirate is an octopus in disguise!
theholysmighter
Titanious Minion
*****

Karma: +8/-37
Posts: 758



« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2011, 03:06:47 PM »

Morphling with 45g (full warrior upgrades) = badass tank until titan can 3 shot you. (lvl 8-10 depending on items, with no items at all he 2 shots a regular builder at level 6. it then takes another 2 to 2 shot a 400 hp builder, add in his armor, miss chance, and spell block (when in a seed ofc) and he's really a monster.)
He doesn't need magic resist.

Mag change is unesessary. Minion = 45g (if your decent enough to last hit it.) 45g = approximately 33,750 lumber in itself. With the pizzly change he'll have a shit ton more. Now I know, you're not going to spend 45g on lumber alone, but even still it's enough to get you 2-3 upgrades, which makes killing the next minion easier.
you do know that miss wont trigger for spells (nukes)?
Logged


Coaster_Man
Titan of the Abyss
******

Karma: +26/-18
Posts: 1233

Self Moderator


« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2011, 06:39:59 PM »

Morphling with 45g (full warrior upgrades) = badass tank until titan can 3 shot you. (lvl 8-10 depending on items, with no items at all he 2 shots a regular builder at level 6. it then takes another 2 to 2 shot a 400 hp builder, add in his armor, miss chance, and spell block (when in a seed ofc) and he's really a monster.)
He doesn't need magic resist.

Mag change is unesessary. Minion = 45g (if your decent enough to last hit it.) 45g = approximately 33,750 lumber in itself. With the pizzly change he'll have a shit ton more. Now I know, you're not going to spend 45g on lumber alone, but even still it's enough to get you 2-3 upgrades, which makes killing the next minion easier.
you do know that miss wont trigger for spells (nukes)?
ofc it does not, and he does not need magic resist
also, he is an offensive builder (warrior/beast) so giving magic resist (defensive) would be wrong
Logged

Pirate is an octopus in disguise!
Smygarn
Beta Tester
Titan Hunter
*

Karma: +23/-8
Posts: 499



« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2011, 08:43:48 PM »

I can bring in some numbers to provide a table for Pizzly harvesting.

Lets say our example magnataur spends all the wood on upgrades, but approximately 2000 on walls (8 Upgraded walls). This is typically how a magnataur plays in a public, by spending all the time on golding, and the rest on either lumbering, avoiding titans or helping others avoid titans, or finally assisting a base. For argument sake, lets say the Magnataur Harvests 300 Swings in total through the game up until gold penalty (10 swings a minute).

Up until Gold Penalty:
3.0.6e:
Pizzly: 18K wood
Magnataur: 300 * 25  = 7.5k
Walls = 2000

Lumber provided first 10 minutes = 8.5k - 2000
Lumber provided before gold penalty = 25.5k - 2000

3.1.0
a:
Pizzly: 45k
Magnataur: 4.5k
Walls = 2000

Lumber provided first 10 minutes = 16.5k - 2000
Lumber provided before gold penalty = 49.5k - 2000


With a difference of 24 000 Lumber, it sounds like alot doesnt it? Do you think Magnataur deserves a lumber upgrade, if he does not, or if he does but not as strong?
Logged


The first thing you do when you get in your hotel room is to put away your stuff, thats the first thing you do is put away your stuff;
I'll put some stuff here, i'll put some some stuff down here, here's another place for some stuff, I'll put some stuff over there, you put your stuff over there and i'll put my stuff over here. heres ano-
Hey! We got more places than we got stuff! We're gonna have to buy more stu
SuramarXStealth
Spearloc
***

Karma: +2/-4
Posts: 317


Fear the drow, fear Drizzt Do'Urden.


WWW
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2011, 08:56:45 PM »

Morphling with 45g (full warrior upgrades) = badass tank until titan can 3 shot you. (lvl 8-10 depending on items, with no items at all he 2 shots a regular builder at level 6. it then takes another 2 to 2 shot a 400 hp builder, add in his armor, miss chance, and spell block (when in a seed ofc) and he's really a monster.)
He doesn't need magic resist.

Mag change is unesessary. Minion = 45g (if your decent enough to last hit it.) 45g = approximately 33,750 lumber in itself. With the pizzly change he'll have a shit ton more. Now I know, you're not going to spend 45g on lumber alone, but even still it's enough to get you 2-3 upgrades, which makes killing the next minion easier.
you do know that miss wont trigger for spells (nukes)?

Yeah, but spells get a slight reduction with armor. It already takes 3 to kill a 300 hp builder, 4 for 400, and 5 on a morphling with spell sheild. Who ISNT going to have 800 hp with a little gold in an IH, late game after gp?
Logged

Oh shit!
Zen1400
Beta Tester
Titan of the Abyss
*

Karma: +57/-58
Posts: 2250


« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 09:34:24 PM »

For mag:
All upgrade costs from ARC alone is 19.5k
RC upgrade cost (not counting merchant stuff, but includes e water) is 5050
Total: 24550

So with the numbers smy got, that means mag never needs to lumber except for wall costs and assuming he got enough gold, he will be able to get every upgrade from pizzly alone. (just about) Obviously that is perfect condition.



Now on morph:

Yeah, but spells get a slight reduction with armor.
Wrong, armor only reduces attack as in MAGIC attack, not spells. Morph always takes the full damage of every nuke.

It already takes 3 to kill a 300 hp builder, 4 for 400, and 5 on a morphling with spell sheild.
Maybe at level 2-4, but last time I checked it took 2 hits for a titan to kill a 300 hp builder and 2 hits (depending on items, and even then a nuke will kill if the 2 hits didnt) to kill a 400 hp builder. Morph gets 400 hp with armor, and assuming he's lucky it takes easily 4+ hits to kill him. He can tank hits but thrown in a single nuke you only need to hit him 2-3 times depending. Throw in another nuke (2 total), and he only requires 1 hit to kill.

Who ISNT going to have 800 hp with a little gold in an IH, late game after gp?
First off a little gold means over 100 in that case. Second of all have you ever seen a mag or demon in an IH? They are much more of a threat than a morph. Both deal more damage & tank better (either magic or straight attacks). They are also better support late game since you aren't being hit, you are being nuked. Both demon and mag have ways of dealing with this, morph only has his 400 hp. If you risk it he can block 1 nuke, which then leaves you stuck for 30 seconds with no health, bad regen, and slower ms.

Also seriously coaster that is the dumbest argument for not getting magic res. All supporters are offensive and defensive. Look at any support builder and you can see they have offensive skills and defensive ones. Fuck demon is suppose to be offensive, yet he has magic resistance.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 09:37:12 PM by Zen1400 » Logged

I is pro


The Farmer
sburnett21
Spearloc
***

Karma: +4/-10
Posts: 293



« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 10:51:28 PM »

I can bring in some numbers to provide a table for Pizzly harvesting.

Lets say our example magnataur spends all the wood on upgrades, but approximately 2000 on walls (8 Upgraded walls). This is typically how a magnataur plays in a public, by spending all the time on golding, and the rest on either lumbering, avoiding titans or helping others avoid titans, or finally assisting a base. For argument sake, lets say the Magnataur Harvests 300 Swings in total through the game up until gold penalty (10 swings a minute).

Up until Gold Penalty:
3.0.6e:
Pizzly: 18K wood
Magnataur: 300 * 25  = 7.5k
Walls = 2000

Lumber provided first 10 minutes = 8.5k - 2000
Lumber provided before gold penalty = 25.5k - 2000

3.1.0
a:
Pizzly: 45k
Magnataur: 4.5k
Walls = 2000

Lumber provided first 10 minutes = 16.5k - 2000
Lumber provided before gold penalty = 49.5k - 2000


With a difference of 24 000 Lumber, it sounds like alot doesnt it? Do you think Magnataur deserves a lumber upgrade, if he does not, or if he does but not as strong?

in 3.1.0 pizzy gets 25 per hit right? what would the lumber be at those times if it was 20 per hit?
Logged

http://www.islanddefense.org/forum/index.php/topic,2075.0.html

Quote from: theorchero
We need summoning powder first.

We make it from the blood of a chocobo, bone powder of a Bremetar, the fine ass hairs of a P0ny, and congealed heart of an Accer.

Plus a couple oranges, a slice of bread, and a single peanut.
Quote from: Neco
Copying a certain arrangement of bytes in a manner dictated by other users isn't stealing.
GunTroll
Titan Hunter
****

Karma: +4/-6
Posts: 356



« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2011, 12:48:26 AM »

in 3.1.0 pizzy gets 25 per hit right? what would the lumber be at those times if it was 20 per hit?

45k/25= 1800 hits
1800*20 = 36k
Logged

Professional Legion TD Player (only -APMGGHHWTFOMGZX3)
SuramarXStealth
Spearloc
***

Karma: +2/-4
Posts: 317


Fear the drow, fear Drizzt Do'Urden.


WWW
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2011, 09:17:24 AM »

For mag:
All upgrade costs from ARC alone is 19.5k
RC upgrade cost (not counting merchant stuff, but includes e water) is 5050
Total: 24550

So with the numbers smy got, that means mag never needs to lumber except for wall costs and assuming he got enough gold, he will be able to get every upgrade from pizzly alone. (just about) Obviously that is perfect condition.



Now on morph:

Yeah, but spells get a slight reduction with armor.
Wrong, armor only reduces attack as in MAGIC attack, not spells. Morph always takes the full damage of every nuke.

It already takes 3 to kill a 300 hp builder, 4 for 400, and 5 on a morphling with spell sheild.
Maybe at level 2-4, but last time I checked it took 2 hits for a titan to kill a 300 hp builder and 2 hits (depending on items, and even then a nuke will kill if the 2 hits didnt) to kill a 400 hp builder. Morph gets 400 hp with armor, and assuming he's lucky it takes easily 4+ hits to kill him. He can tank hits but thrown in a single nuke you only need to hit him 2-3 times depending. Throw in another nuke (2 total), and he only requires 1 hit to kill.

Who ISNT going to have 800 hp with a little gold in an IH, late game after gp?
First off a little gold means over 100 in that case. Second of all have you ever seen a mag or demon in an IH? They are much more of a threat than a morph. Both deal more damage & tank better (either magic or straight attacks). They are also better support late game since you aren't being hit, you are being nuked. Both demon and mag have ways of dealing with this, morph only has his 400 hp. If you risk it he can block 1 nuke, which then leaves you stuck for 30 seconds with no health, bad regen, and slower ms.

Also seriously coaster that is the dumbest argument for not getting magic res. All supporters are offensive and defensive. Look at any support builder and you can see they have offensive skills and defensive ones. Fuck demon is suppose to be offensive, yet he has magic resistance.

Wrong, armor only reduces attack as in MAGIC attack, not spells. Morph always takes the full damage of every nuke.

Alright sorry, I always forget this.

First off a little gold means over 100 in that case.

I was talking like, 45g, then maybe you steal a little more while minion is camping, afk in a base, and gp hits. thats full ups and 2-3 health ups.

Maybe at level 2-4, but last time I checked it took 2 hits for a titan to kill a 300 hp builder and 2 hits (depending on items, and even then a nuke will kill if the 2 hits didnt) to kill a 400 hp builder

It takes 2 hits at lvl 6 to kill a 300 hp builder (no item bonuses) I was talking nukes. It takes 3 to kill a builder, 4 for an hp upgrade, and 5 for a morph with spellshield (assuming used right)
Logged

Oh shit!
Smygarn
Beta Tester
Titan Hunter
*

Karma: +23/-8
Posts: 499



« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2011, 10:17:03 AM »

Moltenious Nukes
Level 1: 130
Level 2: 155
Level 3: 180

Nukes have been confirmed since way past that the damage is unaffected unless the unit has magic resistance. So if we assume that the builder being nuked is a 300 hit point murloc, gnoll, whatever, it will take three level 1 nukes to kill him. It would however be enough with two level 2 nukes, but the interval would have to be almost instantaneously. with 4hp/sec, you cant delay more than 2 seconds after the first level 2 nuke.

But with Level 3 nukes, there is more room for intervals between the nukes, since we're now up in 60 excess damage which takes 15 seconds to recover.

Morph who begins with 400 hp would take four level 1 nukes within 5 seconds from the first nuke, three level 2 nukes with 12.5 seconds from the first nuke, and then three level 3 nukes with 35 seconds from the first nuke. The seconds I measured show how long the interval can be before the build recovers enough hit points to survive another nuke.

Demons who have 25% magic resistance dont have much more durability than the Morphling does. the difference is this:
Y1 = 130 * 0.25 = 32.5 Less damage
Y2 = 150 * 0.25 =  37.5 Less Damage
Y3 = 180 * 0.25 = 45 Less Damage

So the formula kind of goes like this, if we say 3 nukes on all three levels in the case of Demonologist with 300 hit points, for how many seconds of hp regen required to survive a fourth nuke:
130* "3" - (Y1 * "3") = 390 - 97.5 = 292.5
*137.5/4 = 34.375 Seconds*
150* "3" - (Y2 * "3") = 450 - 107.5 = 342.5
*192.5/4 = 48.125 Seconds*
180* "3" - (Y3 * "3") = 540 - 135 = 405
*285/4 = 71.25 Seconds*

The Table does not exactly explain it, but Morphling can take just as many nukes as Demonologist can early game. Its first after they start stacking up hit point upgrades or manuals that Demonologist is more favored in base defense because of that magical resistance, and the much more convenient walling style.


Logged


The first thing you do when you get in your hotel room is to put away your stuff, thats the first thing you do is put away your stuff;
I'll put some stuff here, i'll put some some stuff down here, here's another place for some stuff, I'll put some stuff over there, you put your stuff over there and i'll put my stuff over here. heres ano-
Hey! We got more places than we got stuff! We're gonna have to buy more stu
Coaster_Man
Titan of the Abyss
******

Karma: +26/-18
Posts: 1233

Self Moderator


« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2011, 01:43:42 PM »

Also seriously coaster that is the dumbest argument for not getting magic res. All supporters are offensive and defensive. Look at any support builder and you can see they have offensive skills and defensive ones. Fuck demon is suppose to be offensive, yet he has magic resistance.
Right, so hell lets give faerie magic resist too, since he can be battle faerie. Don't forget sat (stack that hero armor), tauren (which he has in necos 8e) and nature, or his hunter.

Back to morph: If he EVER got magic resist, it should be like evasion where it only works in warrior mode, since beast already has that regen upgrade, making him a TANK.
Logged

Pirate is an octopus in disguise!
SuramarXStealth
Spearloc
***

Karma: +2/-4
Posts: 317


Fear the drow, fear Drizzt Do'Urden.


WWW
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2011, 07:00:20 PM »

Moltenious Nukes
Level 1: 130
Level 2: 155
Level 3: 180

Nukes have been confirmed since way past that the damage is unaffected unless the unit has magic resistance. So if we assume that the builder being nuked is a 300 hit point murloc, gnoll, whatever, it will take three level 1 nukes to kill him. It would however be enough with two level 2 nukes, but the interval would have to be almost instantaneously. with 4hp/sec, you cant delay more than 2 seconds after the first level 2 nuke.

But with Level 3 nukes, there is more room for intervals between the nukes, since we're now up in 60 excess damage which takes 15 seconds to recover.

Morph who begins with 400 hp would take four level 1 nukes within 5 seconds from the first nuke, three level 2 nukes with 12.5 seconds from the first nuke, and then three level 3 nukes with 35 seconds from the first nuke. The seconds I measured show how long the interval can be before the build recovers enough hit points to survive another nuke.

Demons who have 25% magic resistance dont have much more durability than the Morphling does. the difference is this:
Y1 = 130 * 0.25 = 32.5 Less damage
Y2 = 150 * 0.25 =  37.5 Less Damage
Y3 = 180 * 0.25 = 45 Less Damage

So the formula kind of goes like this, if we say 3 nukes on all three levels in the case of Demonologist with 300 hit points, for how many seconds of hp regen required to survive a fourth nuke:
130* "3" - (Y1 * "3") = 390 - 97.5 = 292.5
*137.5/4 = 34.375 Seconds*
150* "3" - (Y2 * "3") = 450 - 107.5 = 342.5
*192.5/4 = 48.125 Seconds*
180* "3" - (Y3 * "3") = 540 - 135 = 405
*285/4 = 71.25 Seconds*

The Table does not exactly explain it, but Morphling can take just as many nukes as Demonologist can early game. Its first after they start stacking up hit point upgrades or manuals that Demonologist is more favored in base defense because of that magical resistance, and the much more convenient walling style.




Thanks smyg, this more accurately defines what I was getting at without the demonologist part, and with the morph spell shield.
Logged

Oh shit!
Smygarn
Beta Tester
Titan Hunter
*

Karma: +23/-8
Posts: 499



« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2011, 07:03:48 PM »

The Map has now been properly rehashed, having fixed the problems notified here. The map is now ready to be played.
I thank you all for your patience, and I wish you a good game. =)

(Download link can be found in the OP, replaced link at the bottom)
Logged


The first thing you do when you get in your hotel room is to put away your stuff, thats the first thing you do is put away your stuff;
I'll put some stuff here, i'll put some some stuff down here, here's another place for some stuff, I'll put some stuff over there, you put your stuff over there and i'll put my stuff over here. heres ano-
Hey! We got more places than we got stuff! We're gonna have to buy more stu
SuramarXStealth
Spearloc
***

Karma: +2/-4
Posts: 317


Fear the drow, fear Drizzt Do'Urden.


WWW
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2011, 07:08:49 PM »

Woot first to download. Hurah for stalking forums!
Logged

Oh shit!
ArtFuL
Beta Tester
Titan of the Abyss
*

Karma: +5/-139
Posts: 1031


Maphack Hunter


WWW
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2011, 01:09:27 AM »

Woot first to download. Hurah for stalking forums!
I doubt you were the first ~~
Logged

SuramarXStealth
Spearloc
***

Karma: +2/-4
Posts: 317


Fear the drow, fear Drizzt Do'Urden.


WWW
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2011, 10:46:40 AM »

Woot first to download. Hurah for stalking forums!
I doubt you were the first ~~

First to download the fixed version. I posted, and refreshed and he had it up less than a minute after my post. It was like 30 seconds later. If I was first then damn.
Logged

Oh shit!
videogamefreak
Worker


Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 1


« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2011, 12:45:51 PM »

Hey Smygarn I have a Mac and its not compatible with the current version of Island defense. And I've been longing to play to for about 2 years. I was wondering if you are going to change it, so it's Mac compatible?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!