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Author Topic: Island Defense 3.0.6G4  (Read 107749 times)
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eLK.
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« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2011, 10:18:22 AM »

I MISS SATYR. FUCK.
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Gwypaas
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« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2011, 10:35:29 AM »

[...]
Anyhow Gwypaas. Some of your changes are likable, others are either unnecessary or downright wrong.
K, now we have your opinion, anything else you wanted to get out?

First. Removing both Satyr and Foss, as well as including the currently incomplete Puppeteer. What? I can understand suspending the Puppeteer but why would you remove both Satyr and Fossurious? As the first thing on the list even.
One of the first things I said when I started to work on this was that "I am not going to sit down and try to fix the broken things into something better, I do not have the timer or motivation to do that, I will just remove them instead and try to get the already working into something better."
(The quote is probably not exact but that was the point of my first post about the Gx series.)

Second. Allowing mid shop(s) to be used by Builders. I have to be serious, im against that. if you want items, just send a turtle up to topleft and buy these items. Its literally for the sake of letting builders purchase tomes which is bad in every way presentable, and it doesnt add anything to the game except taking the game back to the point where it was decided to close shops for builders. No point.
Why is buying tomes bad? Because the 2500 hp mag will come and kill titan? Let see, that means 2100 hp in tomes = 21 tomes = 21*30 = 630 gold. It takes 1.4 seconds to get a gold according to the ability, this means that you need to spend 882 seconds golding which is 14.7 minutes. Which fucking titan will let you gold for 14.7 minutes straight? What this does is that it creates competition for the tomes, it also gives greater focus on the gold mound which means titan might be able to get easier kills and the game play will generally be funnier because of more intense situations.

I don't know why Panda decided to close down shops for builders, neither do I care why. I think it's a bad decision and therefore I make something about it. This does not bring the game backwards in time, this is evolving a game. You make a change, you think it's bad, you revert it a bit differently. Because this shop is NOT the old shop. It still has the element of surprise if titans buys WoTW because I use different shops for builders and titans.

Third and final. Item passing. Do you even realize what that means? You can buy one pearl and be done with it. You just have to keep passing the damn pearl around and you can keep using the pearl over and over again. Its much better to ignore item passing and have you buy more of the item if you want increased efficiency. Great move, really. Item passing sucks. You can buy an eternal and keep passing it around (which makes the Titanic ward entirely useless). You can keep passing Life essence around and continually use healing power endlessly.
Of course I realize what that means, I quit ID for a long period of time when the 1.22 patch removed it because I thought the lack of it ruined ID. Passing the pearl around means micro, which for me equals a funnier game play because you raise the maximum skill level and intensity. In 6e minions are pretty much useless to do anything but nuking in a siege. In earlier versions you had to keep track of their mana, pass the items around and nuke. Which created a higher maximum skill level because there were more elements to perfect, and more things to do at once which equals mer intensity again. Ah shit, didnt I say that I removed Titanic Wards in my first post? Because they ARE removed. Just like your favorite useless titan Fossorious.

One of my first statements in that post is that "For all I know this version is probably buggy and horribly balanced", take that into consideration next time you post. I bet it still is horribly balanced but almost all balance problems can be fixed with a few tweaks if you know what you are doing. Compared to what I hear your version is Smiley
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Gwypaas
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« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2011, 10:35:52 AM »

I MISS SATYR. FUCK.
You miss the free 30 gold when you titan? Sad
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eLK.
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« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2011, 10:40:29 AM »

No, I actually liked Darox's Satyr from 2.8.6 a lot, especially because it wasn't exclusive.
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Jumby
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« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2011, 12:05:52 PM »

Yea removing Satyr was just down right retarded. If you had to change it, add Darox's Satyr.... Other changes were good but removing a dynamic builder becuase "IM NOT FIXING SHIT I JUST REMOVE IT" is fucking stupid. Add it back and leave it alone if you dont wanna change it...
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Critikill
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« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2011, 02:16:28 PM »

Don't let the numbers in the G# series go up to 6.

YES. NO SAT. NO FOSS.
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Zen1400
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« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2011, 02:35:09 PM »

Satyr was useless in every game. The only time he was useful was when he got enough gold that 2k hp builders were running around the map, which means titan was retarded. Satyr added nothing useful, he could barely do his job because everyone viewed him as a lone wolf, even though he was much better with the army. The only thing he has that no other builder can do is get a permanent gnoll, which doesn't make up for the amount of space he takes in a base and what he gives.
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The Farmer
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« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2011, 02:44:11 PM »

I think you guys are missing the point.

Darox's satyr is bad (now he's gonna reply to this thread and rape me but...).
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Jumby
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« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2011, 02:46:41 PM »

I think you guys are missing the point.

Darox's satyr is bad (now he's gonna reply to this thread and rape me but...).
Nice oppinion. But your right you can do sooo much better and more creative things cant you? Oh wait you cant. Or you never tried.
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Neco
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« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2011, 02:48:51 PM »

I think you guys are missing the point.

Darox's satyr is bad (now he's gonna reply to this thread and rape me but...).
Nice oppinion. But your right you can do sooo much better and more creative things cant you? Oh wait you cant. Or you never tried.

I didn't say it wasn't creative, I said it was bad. Satyr is always bad, since it's the only unique thing in Island Defense so it's never fitted in quite right.

It is hella fun to play though.
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Jux.Mage
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« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2011, 05:37:03 PM »

Satyr was useless in every game. The only time he was useful was when he got enough gold that 2k hp builders were running around the map, which means titan was retarded. Satyr added nothing useful, he could barely do his job because everyone viewed him as a lone wolf, even though he was much better with the army. The only thing he has that no other builder can do is get a permanent gnoll, which doesn't make up for the amount of space he takes in a base and what he gives.

Shadow Dust can save a Life (If used correctly).
Wall-block Titan when he's stuck in a base with his shelter [Maybe put a barricade].

Satyr really needs to be supportive.
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Zen1400
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« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2011, 06:14:31 PM »

Thats like saying a mag using ww is going to always save him. Its a one trick pony and it stops at that.

Congrats you can wall block with a den, which feeds a lot, or a 1 gold wall (which no one buys). Not like mag, nature, and troll can't just walk up and do this too. Radio can also walk up to the titan say "FUCK YOU" place down a couple of walls and walk back.
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The Farmer
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« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2011, 07:36:22 PM »

Sat is bad. Everyone saying he should stay obviously just plays him too much. He never contributed to any game except for being annoying.
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« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2011, 08:35:27 PM »

Why the fuck no foss  Angry

RAAAAAAAAAAGEEee
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 08:40:19 PM by _Cooljul_ » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2011, 09:23:14 PM »

Why are you newb-as-tits bitches complaining about the loss of the most useless imbalanced units in the game? Next you'll be crying because a tree  critical to your playstyle was replaced by a coral.
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« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2011, 11:12:57 PM »

Wait, THEY'RE GOING TO REPLACE THE BODYHAMMER TREE? WITH SOME RANDOM CORAL??? WTF!! RAAAAAAAAGE!!!!
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Smygarn
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« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2011, 11:24:35 PM »

Oh I cant wait to see one builder get imbalanced only to hear you whine for its removal.
Oh noes, that builder sucks now. Remove it!

And gwy. While I do disagree with some of the changes, I dont care what you hear about me which you take to assume you are doing right and I not. I made 3.0.6f to give editors time to make the versions properly, not more or less.

Quote
One of my first statements in that post is that "For all I know this version is probably buggy and horribly balanced", take that into consideration next time you post. I bet it still is horribly balanced but almost all balance problems can be fixed with a few tweaks if you know what you are doing. Compared to what I hear your version is...

Ah, so my version is shit and yours is the best? They only love your version because you make nostalgia changes. Nostalgia changes they might very well had came and begged you to do for all I know.
You remove the new Titans, Satyr, Puppeteer.
You also changed Nature in the ways of nostalgia and altered Tauren Exp... Okay I know I did too but- Are those changes just taken from my changelist?
you want nostalgia with little effort. Why dont you just start over from 2.8.6? Seems to me it would make it alot easier.
Thats some great motivation right there btw, taking the 3.0.6e version and changing it to be like 2.8.6. Because you couldnt be arsed to just copy in the few additions you did like I assume.

Either way, to summarize.
Nostalgia is a thing of the past, and should remain in the past. While some changes can be connected to it, Nostalgia should be avoided when you are the editor. Its called the ability to say no to yourself.
And I do not have a version. 3.0.6f is my work but it belongs to you and this community. I made it for your sakes, especially for you Gwypaas so you could make a proper version. Not keep releasing these G1, G2 and G3 shit.

EDIT:
Quote
One of my first statements in that post is that "For all I know this version is probably buggy and horribly balanced", take that into consideration next time you post.
Are you mentally ill? I was not complaining about details and bugs. These are core changes found right in your changelist. Things you intend to have, not simple bugs or errors (because you thought wrong to have wanted it and thus can blame it on that I assume).
Balance and bugs have nothing to do in the changelist which is what im complaining at, so try to be a little constructive. The changes, not bugs.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 11:52:16 PM by Smygarn » Logged


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I'll put some stuff here, i'll put some some stuff down here, here's another place for some stuff, I'll put some stuff over there, you put your stuff over there and i'll put my stuff over here. heres ano-
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Frizz.Meister
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« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2011, 02:56:01 AM »

Well as no one has had any ideas down yet on making arachnid more unique heres mine. (just throwing them out there so tweak or whatever)

-Change wall model to web add 10% chance to ensnare for 1 second when attacked
-Make hunter ranged an spawn mini scorpions with expert training
-Remove tower slow poison
-Create new scorpion tower which has higher damage but crappy range
-Remove standard workers (champion only)
-Give champion workers better lumber gather rate and a ranged attack(upgrades???)

Yeah there not the best ideas but hey at least he would be unique.
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Gwypaas
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« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2011, 08:24:37 AM »

Oh I cant wait to see one builder get imbalanced only to hear you whine for its removal.
Oh noes, that builder sucks now. Remove it!
You completely missed the point here, the 2 builders and 1 titan I removed has been under extreme criticism for a very long time, and I myself don't see any need to have them in a quick fix version where I do stuff which I thinks is right. All other builders and titans have their roles and they work out good. The things removed were just unfinished and stupid compared to other races. A perspective of this would be that I bring up ID's general quality by doing this since I take away the huge dips 6e currently has.

And gwy. While I do disagree with some of the changes, I dont care what you hear about me which you take to assume you are doing right and I not. I made 3.0.6f to give editors time to make the versions properly, not more or less.
To be quite frank, you made 6f because you wanted glory and something to waste your time on, then half way through it you realized that you can't do shit in WE without help and then you pretty much gave up doing anything after the things you initially promised were done with huge help from me, Neco and probably some other people.

Quote
One of my first statements in that post is that "For all I know this version is probably buggy and horribly balanced", take that into consideration next time you post. I bet it still is horribly balanced but almost all balance problems can be fixed with a few tweaks if you know what you are doing. Compared to what I hear your version is...

Ah, so my version is shit and yours is the best? They only love your version because you make nostalgia changes. Nostalgia changes they might very well had came and begged you to do for all I know.
You remove the new Titans, Satyr, Puppeteer.
You also changed Nature in the ways of nostalgia and altered Tauren Exp... Okay I know I did too but- Are those changes just taken from my changelist?
you want nostalgia with little effort. Why dont you just start over from 2.8.6? Seems to me it would make it alot easier.
Thats some great motivation right there btw, taking the 3.0.6e version and changing it to be like 2.8.6. Because you couldnt be arsed to just copy in the few additions you did like I assume.

Either way, to summarize.
Nostalgia is a thing of the past, and should remain in the past. While some changes can be connected to it, Nostalgia should be avoided when you are the editor. Its called the ability to say no to yourself.
And I do not have a version. 3.0.6f is my work but it belongs to you and this community. I made it for your sakes, especially for you Gwypaas so you could make a proper version. Not keep releasing these G1, G2 and G3 shit.
I didn't say that my opinion was that it's shit, nor that mine is the best. I just heard some of the most well known people on your all so lovely europe server say it's shit compared to 6e and mine. I haven't even played your version so don't put words into my mouth, it won't help you in this argumentation.

Smy, why the fuck are you nitpicking just to get your "point" across or W/E it is? I already answered all the things you said above with 2 simple statements, although they were about the shop the analogy can be used on all "nostalgia" changes I've made if you want to call them that, because none of my reverts has been exactly like the old map.
Quote
This does not bring the game backwards in time, this is evolving a game. You make a change, you think it's bad, you revert it a bit differently.
TBH, I haven't even looked at your changelist because I knew that with your intention you would just end up with a huge fucking changelist and a broken mess of a map since all synergies has been shifted in some way it's not going to work. In a "game" if you call ID that, you can't shift all balance at once, you make small changes and see their impact, then you make new small changes and you continue down that path until you are satisfied. That's why I tried reducing titan exp to 90% in G3 since I realized the titans were having a way too easy time to level when I played G2, maybe it will be too little, maybe it will be too much, but a subtle change like that will push the balance in the right direction.

Why would I start with 2.8.6? I'm familiar with 3.0.6e, not all additions has been bad, nor has all been good. I take what I think is bad and make them into what I think is good, what is so hard for you to grasp about that? That your version currently is pretty much failing and you are really damn jealous because people seem to like my? Because that is the attitude I can read out  that you have from your posts about my version.

You did not make is especially for me, I retired as an editor over 7 months ago, you didn't even give my position in this community a thought when you started to make it. Why are you lying to me? To strengthen your points or what? Because they seem pretty much non-existent.

So now my versions are shit? That's why people tend to like them huh? Should I increase the number on them just to make them "awesome" or what do you want? I don't have the motivation or time to make new things because it takes way more time than what I did here. Sure I made some new "systems" if you can call them that but they weren't anything huge and I already had previous experience making them. Making a whole new builder or titan requires a lot more, if that is what you think evolving ID is all about, and that we've already seen fail horribly a couple of times during different editors regimes.

EDIT:
Quote
One of my first statements in that post is that "For all I know this version is probably buggy and horribly balanced", take that into consideration next time you post.
Are you mentally ill? I was not complaining about details and bugs. These are core changes found right in your changelist. Things you intend to have, not simple bugs or errors (because you thought wrong to have wanted it and thus can blame it on that I assume).
Balance and bugs have nothing to do in the changelist which is what im complaining at, so try to be a little constructive. The changes, not bugs.
Wtf are you talking about? How can changes NOT affect balance. All changes you make AFFECT balance if you don't rewrite system A to get it more efficient. I didn't rewrite any systems because I find ID to be working good enough. I put pretty much everything I changed into the change list because it affects the game and people should be able to see what was changed. Just a question, if "Balance and bugs" has nothing to do in the change list? Then your change list would be about 0 lines long because all you do is a "Balance refix". You are contradicting yourself here. GOOD JOB Mr.Smygarn!

Btw, Ad hominem isn't cool, neither does it make your point, or whatever you try to make up there better backed up.
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D1RE
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« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2011, 08:49:06 AM »

Implying that Smygarn ever intended to do anything more without any knowledge is downright stupid, he and I have talked about this for quite a long time and most of the changes made in his version are based on feedback from the top european players currently active (and before I even hear the euro argument, fuck you. That was valid 2 years ago). When he agreed to make this version he said right from the very beginning that he will not become an editor of this map, he simply wants something better for the community while we wait for a proper new version to be released. You can ever read his own words in his own topic, right in the first post there. His initial promises were just that and nothing more.

As for your opinion on foss and satyr, I can sympathize with them. I also know very well why you wouldn't want to work on foss because it isn't a concept that truly works. The only problem here is that a lot of other titans share the same problem, though to a lesser extent. When was the last time you saw Grant beat a team of builders where you have at least 4 players with a clue and no insane feeders? He has major issues as well, he's just been around for so long people take it for granted.

As for your comments on balance, what the fuck? I mean, you say you haven't even looked at the changelist then in the same breath you claim he's shifting all the balance at once? That he is overcompensating? You might want to do a little reading here, some of the major criticism he receieved is that he is making too small changes.

Not going to go to personal insults here, I'm just adding my point of view with the information I have. I just find it sad that people are making accusations based on nothing but imagined opinions (that goes for both of you).
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Smygarn
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« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2011, 09:13:47 AM »

I can admit that im overreacting because 3.0.6f was recently released and hearing what gwy's saying.
But Gwy. If I was into editing for glory, dont you think I would've practiced Jass? From the very start like D1RE said, I only planned on making a balance for 3.0.6e to keep the version going until a new version could be properly made instead of rushed to satisfy the community.

Quote
I didn't say that my opinion was that it's shit, nor that mine is the best. I just heard some of the most well known people on your all so lovely europe server say it's shit compared to 6e and mine.
If you hear that my balance is shit, you could take a look at it and confirm what you hear. Its morals to not bring up "rumors" and stuff you hear without confirming whether its true or not. I looked into your version and many of the things are still rushed, even if the idea behind them is well thought out.

Because you happen to be editing, 3.0.6f is dedicated to give you the time you need. Im not saying that I was doing it specifically for you as in an attempt to kiss your ass and get co-editor rank. Im simply saying that I did it for the editor which happens to be you. At the time when I started, Neco was editing so it was for his version to get more time. It simply happened to be your version that was in making when 3.0.6f was finished, so consider that earned time for free.

And finally:
Quote
Wtf are you talking about? How can changes NOT affect balance.
Dodging my point I see.
Im saying that I was complaining at the changelist, not the bugs around them.
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The first thing you do when you get in your hotel room is to put away your stuff, thats the first thing you do is put away your stuff;
I'll put some stuff here, i'll put some some stuff down here, here's another place for some stuff, I'll put some stuff over there, you put your stuff over there and i'll put my stuff over here. heres ano-
Hey! We got more places than we got stuff! We're gonna have to buy more stu
eLK.
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« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2011, 10:01:28 AM »

Hey--really quick--does anybody know how to remove cranberry juice stains from a wool carpet? Just asking.
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Frizz.Meister
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« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2011, 11:19:35 AM »

Hey--really quick--does anybody know how to remove cranberry juice stains from a wool carpet? Just asking.

White wine if the carpet is white. Vanish oxi action otherwise.

On topic: What has happened to this community! When i was a forum member on the old site nearly 2 years ago everyone was helpfull and interested in each others opinions good or bad. Now its like a school playground in every thread i check.

I love island defense and can see its clearly dieing. Anything i can do to help i will but can everyone PLEASE stop having this right/wrong attitude and start looking for some alternative ground.

/rant
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turbo
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« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2011, 12:00:50 PM »

ID is dieing in the same way a 5 year old child it dieing from diabetes. It's going, but it's going to take its sweet time getting there.


Gwy, Smyg, calm the fuck down. As Frizz said, this isn't a schoolyard, although I suspect a bunch of young kids would act more mature than some of the people here.... regardless. Stop yelling at eachother, it's only making both of you look bad infront of everyone.

Satyr and Foss have been touchy subjects for awhile, the former being around longer. As D1RE said, Grantesticles has his problems too, but since he's been around longer everyones gotten used to him. You really should of left foss in there, even if he has some problems. He's still playable and you can still win games with him, as long as you get some early game feed. But it is your version Gwypaas, so you can do whatever the fuck you want. That still doesn't give you the right to lash out at someone though, even if some of the things that person said were worded questionably(as in some of the stuff sounded jerkish).
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« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2011, 12:31:51 PM »

Yeah i agree everyone needs to chill. The changes that brought the game back were mostly just changes that a lot of GOOD players wanted to see. Nature being reset was good. Foss isn't good enough to have a chance in the game so he needed to be taken out, sat was just a free kill and I'm sorry but since this new version has been released by gwypass there has been a surge of old players returning.

To make this short I haven't had this much fun playing id in forever.
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So the truthfully face of -red is being a retard bitching people?
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