Satyr - tome or no tome?

[Ninja_Sheep]

I mainly speak about start. Should satyr get a tome at start? Or should he invest in upgrades?

The main problem about this is: How do I count the wood? If I harvest the wood it takes forever and I can't poke, so I need my tome :/

I say: Wrong! The key to using your gold and time efficient is selling items for gold.
With only 33 gold you can have +150 HP and +3 armor. And a loot stash built alrdy.
Total lumber cost for this: 1500 (endurance * 3) + 750 (loot stash) + 150 (den) = 2400. Now take away 500 you can harvest at start. so 1900.
Total gold cost: 3 (endurance*3) + 15 (loot stash) = 18

So wile golding you get 3 Eyes and sell them. You have 2350 wood wich is enough. For the cost of 15 gold.
You quickly leave middel, set up thieves guild and loot stash and do the upgrade. The titan propably won't notice the loot stash so soon, even if he pearls it unless you're rly unlucky.
And well, it won't work always and you shouldn't sell 3 eyes if titan camps and you come to harvest enough wood by yourself. And if somebody takes the eyes it doesn't work either.

oh btw, I noticed a TERRIBLE SATYR BUG! at loot stash, if you are researching the combat training the rending blades icon moves to left. the rending blade upgrade has wrong position! zomg!

[D1RE]

I would say, as most things in Island Defense, it's situational. If the titan camp, but manage to grab 30 gold a tome is actually not a bad investment. With the uppgrade from the den you then have 300 hp. If he keeps on camping you can keep on poking him and gain more gold which you spend on a few more tomes and some potions to keep yourself high on hp. After some time you can have more than 11k lumber meaning you got lots of lumber, gold and hp.

In a scenario with a more skilled titan however you will need every single piece of gold you get. The amount of gold you need for the hp researches  + combat master is 28. 15 for stash, 3 for the hp and 10 for combat mastery. In this situation it's important to get dash quickly, but you will also need some damage uppgrades since the titan will most likely get a minion quickly, and when that is ganged you want it down as fast as you can.

The last option is going for an army. This is probably the best option if you can micro well, still I rarely see it happen.

Also, crowns > hp tomes.

[Nexus]

Well yeah, toming as satyr is only for extreme situations when you are very limited on gold.

Think about it though, if you have 35 gold with 200 hp you can get loot stash and all the stealth upgrades and be able to poke your way up to enough gold to get all your hp upgrades. Be smart. 350 with no armor and no stealth reduction makes you a terrible satyr.

In one of my games, I had exactly 200hp and 20 gold. I went for loot stash leaving me with 5 gold. I went for one stealth upgrade and that was enough to poke a level 2 minion at the gold mound leaving me with around 100 hp or 50 hp, and if the titan did not pay attention you just got yourself 100 hp.

[D1RE]

The stealth uppgrades are meh... I'd rather go for damage and dash and have some other builders tank while I poke. <3 demonologists.

[Nexus]

Would you rather have 125 more chaos damage and dash with the ability to dying easy and having a hard time poking or have an easy time getting triple of what you can get with that?

The first stealth upgrade can reduce the times hit by 1. 2 hits maximum. The last one makes you being hit once. It is truely amazing on a satyr that had a early minion kill.

[Ninja_Sheep]

I would say, as most things in Island Defense, it's situational. If the titan camp, but manage to grab 30 gold a tome is actually not a bad investment. With the uppgrade from the den you then have 300 hp. If he keeps on camping you can keep on poking him and gain more gold which you spend on a few more tomes and some potions to keep yourself high on hp. After some time you can have more than 11k lumber meaning you got lots of lumber, gold and hp.

I never said toming is bad. I just said INSTEAD of getting a tome ASAP you should get the endurance upgrades ASAP.

[D1RE]

And you wasted a lot of gold if the mini get a pearl. Vs. a good titan or minion those stealth uppgrades are worthless. I might get the first one, but I usually prefer other uppgrades.

[Revengez]

And you wasted a lot of gold if the mini get a pearl. Vs. a good titan or minion those stealth uppgrades are worthless. I might get the first one, but I usually prefer other uppgrades.

You should've made your avatar words spazz out, it adds to the drug theme yo

[D1RE]

And you wasted a lot of gold if the mini get a pearl. Vs. a good titan or minion those stealth uppgrades are worthless. I might get the first one, but I usually prefer other uppgrades.

You should've made your avatar words spazz out, it adds to the drug theme yo

How about staying on topic?

[Revengez]

And you wasted a lot of gold if the mini get a pearl. Vs. a good titan or minion those stealth uppgrades are worthless. I might get the first one, but I usually prefer other uppgrades.

You should've made your avatar words spazz out, it adds to the drug theme yo

How about staying on topic?

ok satyr tome rawks

[Lord_Kamakazie]

Tomes are like crack, you need gold to buy tomes so you can gold to buy tomes.

[D1RE]

Tomes are like crack, you need gold to buy tomes so you can gold to buy tomes.

QFT
On Taurens it's actually not bad though. xD

[Zen1400]

Well what you could do is get as much gold as possible and use that for upgrades, and when penalty hits buy 3 tomes with the 90g you just got.

[D1RE]

Well what you could do is get as much gold as possible and use that for upgrades, and when penalty hits buy 3 tomes with the 90g you just got.

Or you could buy as many toems as possible and get uppgrades when penalty comes.

[Ruthers]

Well what you could do is get as much gold as possible and use that for upgrades, and when penalty hits buy 3 tomes with the 90g you just got.

Or you could buy as many toems as possible and get uppgrades when penalty comes.

Well maybe if your stupid...

[D1RE]

If you refer to satyr, yes. If you refer to Tauren, why? With penalty he gets all the uppgrades except for the Tauren master. And with the extra hp early he can gold even more.

[Ignatius Reilly]

   As was pointed out before, toming, vs not toming, and using gold on items vs not using gold on items is very situational. Often the best strategy is to think about the titan's playstyle and how good the other builders are. If you get 30 gold, then someone dies you don't want to have wasted money on a single tome when 150 hp and 3 armor might let you poke if you are careful. However, it is not beneficial to be wasting time building and wooding when you could be golding.
   As for buying and selling items, I am not a huge fan since it can drain you of much needed gold. In this case, think what would happen if you got 45 gold but spent 15 on eyes before someone died. Compare that to the upgrades you could get with the full 45. Buying items and selling them is only intelligent if you can count on more gold. The satyr isn't THAT bad at wooding compared to his costs when you don't need to be golding, remember that.

[Monkeysmine]

   As was pointed out before, toming, vs not toming, and using gold on items vs not using gold on items is very situational. Often the best strategy is to think about the titan's playstyle and how good the other builders are. If you get 30 gold, then someone dies you don't want to have wasted money on a single tome when 150 hp and 3 armor might let you poke if you are careful. However, it is not beneficial to be wasting time building and wooding when you could be golding.
   As for buying and selling items, I am not a huge fan since it can drain you of much needed gold. In this case, think what would happen if you got 45 gold but spent 15 on eyes before someone died. Compare that to the upgrades you could get with the full 45. Buying items and selling them is only intelligent if you can count on more gold. The satyr isn't THAT bad at wooding compared to his costs when you don't need to be golding, remember that.

What can you get with 45? You can get 3 hp up loot dash with 30, you can't get 2nd tier combat trainig with 45.

[Striker]

I only buy a regen pot, unless im with lee or a bunch of friends.

[D1RE]

As long as someone can let you get in a poke every once in a while you're not dependant on the gold mine. So selling items to get researches quickly isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is all situational. After you have dash and 3 hp uppgrades, you're more or less ready to go poking. Get 2-3 ranks of the damage uppgrade and you're ready to go hunting with a tank.

[Ban-Kai13]

And you wasted a lot of gold if the mini get a pearl. Vs. a good titan or minion those stealth uppgrades are worthless. I might get the first one, but I usually prefer other uppgrades.

you only need 28 gold in total to get 300 hp and dash with satyr. Stealth upgrades aren't worthless against a good titan or minion. More armor equals more tankage.

[D1RE]

I think you mistake the hp uppgrades for the stealth uppgrades. I'm talking about those reducing your fade timer, not the ones increasing your hp and armor.

[islandDer]

I aim for 23 gold each game, which gives me total of 300hp to safely poke early-mid game (but ONLY from inside walls).  If i get over 30, and titan is clearly newb, along with a good host connection and all players golding are clearly pro and won't die, I'll tome.  Otherwise, I'll go for 150 hp upgrade (total of 18 gold w/o gold->lumber items such as eye).  I'll then poke till dash, and later, when i've poked a lot, I'll get a tome or two, and then go for blur.  I only ever get the first stealth upgrade, because once the second one is researched, your golding is messed up and you can only get like 1 gold / 3 secs, compared to the normal 1 gold/second rate.

[eLK.]

I buy 6 TTs as satyr then I go rape titan. I also cast concentrated darkness right before attacking to max DPS.

[Illumanus]

I tome when I have an excess of gold. It's worth it, imho. If you are satyr, well shame on no one, but if you die, shame on you. It's your job to stay alive and HP tomes help you.