Minion Sacrifice

[sburnett21]

Credit to ArcofDeath

What if you could sacrifice a minion for 45 gold as a titan, if you have a surplus?


Any thoughts?

[Zen1400]

Denys builder poossible gold/exp, and honestly chances are if you have a lot of minions you are hunting the last builder down.

[theorchero]

OP.

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

never have too much minions, pff.

[Ryld]

only if i was playing some skilled builder who denied every wall and I needed that 45 gold to get an item to break base

[Frankjg]

only if i was playing some skilled builder who denied every wall and I needed that 45 gold to get an item to break base

Or you could use the minion to break a base.

[Ryld]

only if i was playing some skilled builder who denied every wall and I needed that 45 gold to get an item to break base

Or you could use the minion to break a base.

notice the only if part at the beginning of my sentence
some bases are unbreakable even with tons of minions

[Frankjg]

only if i was playing some skilled builder who denied every wall and I needed that 45 gold to get an item to break base

Or you could use the minion to break a base.

notice the only if part at the beginning of my sentence
some bases are unbreakable even with tons of minions

If that's the case, you've messed up somewhere.

Probably when you killed all of those builders that could be feed, leaving you with a ton of low level minions.
Or maybe when you let an unkillable base come up when you don't have your minions patrolling.
It could even be failing at micro.
Tons of others, as well.

Which one fits you best?

[sburnett21]

only if i was playing some skilled builder who denied every wall and I needed that 45 gold to get an item to break base

Or you could use the minion to break a base.

notice the only if part at the beginning of my sentence
some bases are unbreakable even with tons of minions

If that's the case, you've messed up somewhere.

Probably when you killed all of those builders that could be feed, leaving you with a ton of low level minions.
Or maybe when you let an unkillable base come up when you don't have your minions patrolling.
It could even be failing at micro.
Tons of others, as well.

Which one fits you best?

Or you know, it could be an early baser, and most of the other builders are supports, therefor small feed. Say your first 2 minions are the only other basers, while the early baser is all set in his nice little base. The supports det all thier crap and chill the the good base. they wait out the GP and now you have a base filled with unnukeable supporters, and towers. Yes, those two minions would be of so much help, compared to 90 more gold.

[Ryld]

only if i was playing some skilled builder who denied every wall and I needed that 45 gold to get an item to break base

Or you could use the minion to break a base.

notice the only if part at the beginning of my sentence
some bases are unbreakable even with tons of minions

If that's the case, you've messed up somewhere.

Probably when you killed all of those builders that could be feed, leaving you with a ton of low level minions.
Or maybe when you let an unkillable base come up when you don't have your minions patrolling.
It could even be failing at micro.
Tons of others, as well.

Which one fits you best?

I think a much simpler answer is that the baser is a dryad
your attacks are funny though

[theorchero]

only if i was playing some skilled builder who denied every wall and I needed that 45 gold to get an item to break base

Or you could use the minion to break a base.

notice the only if part at the beginning of my sentence
some bases are unbreakable even with tons of minions

If that's the case, you've messed up somewhere.

Probably when you killed all of those builders that could be feed, leaving you with a ton of low level minions.
Or maybe when you let an unkillable base come up when you don't have your minions patrolling.
It could even be failing at micro.
Tons of others, as well.

Which one fits you best?

Or you know, it could be an early baser, and most of the other builders are supports, therefor small feed. Say your first 2 minions are the only other basers, while the early baser is all set in his nice little base. The supports det all thier crap and chill the the good base. they wait out the GP and now you have a base filled with unnukeable supporters, and towers. Yes, those two minions would be of so much help, compared to 90 more gold.

even with 90 more gold you probably couldnt do much.

this is the problem with island defense, even if you do your best, and actually manage to get kills early, you are totally fucked for doing your job- so little feed, and what feed you do get is reduced a shitton by feed reducer which doesn't take into account amount of players remaining.

Suggestions:

-Maybe give titan (early game) a % of XP of the builders buildings?

-REVAMP/KILL FR. Make it take into account amount of players remaining- maybe add +10% of feed cap to each player?

-Fix the recurring gold penalty. THAT SHIT IS OVERPOWERED. You cannot match, no matter how many walls you kill, the relative gold (and/or XP) to the recurring gold penalty. Make it give titan something too, so it helps speed up the game FFS.

[Frankjg]

90 gold compared to two minions? That's not even worth considering. Minions are far more powerful than two tridents or a srs. (or anything else you might buy.)

How exactly is a dryad going to base when you've got more minions than you need, anyway?

Edit: The recurring gold penalty was intended to screw the titan over, if i'm not mistaken. I think that the logic was if you're bad enough to let them last that long then you need some type of penalty for doing so. Btw, I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just giving my honest feedback. I figured that getting the point of view from someone that primarily plays titan might be helpful.

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

Just won a game because i had 5 minions.

[sburnett21]

90 gold compared to two minions? That's not even worth considering. Minions are far more powerful than two tridents or a srs. (or anything else you might buy.)

How exactly is a dryad going to base when you've got more minions than you need, anyway?

Edit: The recurring gold penalty was intended to screw the titan over, if i'm not mistaken. I think that the logic was if you're bad enough to let them last that long then you need some type of penalty for doing so. Btw, I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just giving my honest feedback. I figured that getting the point of view from someone that primarily plays titan might be helpful.

Well, it all makes sense, this idea was more for the standpoint of trying to get that annoying blinking builder, but it doesn't really matter, since the general opinion is that this idea is bad. 
The gold penalty makes sense though. Think about it, a titan can just farm walls for small amounts of exp, and gold, and eventually get to a point of breaking the base, while the builders, without a penalty, could do nothing about it. The titan can always get stronger, while the builderscannot.

[theorchero]

90 gold compared to two minions? That's not even worth considering. Minions are far more powerful than two tridents or a srs. (or anything else you might buy.)

How exactly is a dryad going to base when you've got more minions than you need, anyway?

Edit: The recurring gold penalty was intended to screw the titan over, if i'm not mistaken. I think that the logic was if you're bad enough to let them last that long then you need some type of penalty for doing so. Btw, I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just giving my honest feedback. I figured that getting the point of view from someone that primarily plays titan might be helpful.

Well, it all makes sense, this idea was more for the standpoint of trying to get that annoying blinking builder, but it doesn't really matter, since the general opinion is that this idea is bad. 
The gold penalty makes sense though. Think about it, a titan can just farm walls for small amounts of exp, and gold, and eventually get to a point of breaking the base, while the builders, without a penalty, could do nothing about it. The titan can always get stronger, while the builderscannot.

the game usually doesnt last long after you get your megas, and very few titans get fed enough to actually take that kind of base. Builders are always getting stronger except for a very small portion of the game, but at a rate that far succeeds that of the titan in a normal game. We have done everything we could to slow the titans power advance while maximizing the builders. As smy explained in one post (from a while ago, in his old "MMK I EDIT AND SAVE MAP" topic) the curve of the game favors the builders to begin with, and unless he does something the curve gets worse throughout the game, when one side gets the advantage, it just keeps piling up with reduced chance of a comeback.

[turbo]

.... What if the Titan got a 10% EXP/Gold boost from every builder he killed?

[theorchero]

.... What if the Titan got a 10% EXP/Gold boost from every builder he killed?

thats a good concept but numbers might need adjusting (obviously)

and that would balance both lack and feed and incentive to actually eliminate ridiculous feed from noobs... somewhat.

[Frankjg]

I would love, instead of that, to have the minions spawn at a closer level to the titan's on the builders death.

The minions need feed in order for them to be effective, which makes a much lower incentive for me to actually kill a builder. I usually end up feeding 1-2 minions and letting everyone else live until the end.

[SuramarXStealth]

I really like the idea of getting something like +10% feed to each builder killed.... Way to often do I kill say, 1-2 basers and end up with almost nothing left. Especially when they all pile in together and support one really pro baser. Perhaps you could take something from vamps and add a super-mega-ultra shop that opens up after the second gold penalty for the titan? Make minions denyable?

Either way Island Defense needs a slight revamp in it's playstyle now that there are so many more builders / titans and items.

[theorchero]

I'm in favor of the XP increase per builder slain.

[Neco]

I'm in favor of the XP increase per builder slain.

I think team wide auras (generated from the mound, global range) would be better than experience gain.

[Frankjg]

Maybe provide the titan and minions with half of all the bonuses provided by items that are in the mound?

[13r4ndon]

In what game do you ever have more items than you can put on your main or minions where that would be at all useful...?
I mean at most i end up with life essense/webbed feet on main and titanic wards/pearl on minis, i usually dont even spend the rest of my gold and the life essense could go on a mini just as well.

[Frankjg]

But providing them to your main and your minions at the same time could potentially be more powerful than providing them to your main exclusively.

In this situation, you wouldn't be putting excess items in the mound, you would be putting items that you want the bonus globalized into it. You could use stat items in the mound, while using utility items such as wards or life essense, etc on your main/minion.

[13r4ndon]

I don't know anything about map making, but what you are proposing seems like it would be REALLY hard to trigger unless you create adititional items would have the same bonuses(halfed? i guess) as the normal item provided as a global aura. I did misunderstand you at first, thinking you meant bonuses would be provided only to main.

But anyway minions are very good at is it, i just would like to see all minions be able to provide some type of support other than damage output to the main. For example, breeze/glac/foss(until level 6 which only 1 or 2 of your minis would get at best in a decent game) can't support the main at all. All other minions can directly heal the main while the minions of the 3 titans that i mentioned are simply useless other then the threat of nuking, which good builders won't allow to happen at all.

I find those titans to be severly hindered by that fact, although breeze makes up for it because of strong and deadly abilities. Glac is just a bad titan and only able to win games when builders don't know what they are doing. If you're foss you can't let builders get 45 gold or it's basically an auto loss. I think those two/three things(with breeze need to be fixed.)

Again those statements are only true if the builder team is bad, i dont care if you can win 99/100 pubs with glac or foss(allowing 45 gold), the titans are still shitty because of lack of minion support.

Another thing i would like to mention is that i believe a vital change to the game would be to drastically increase the experience gain based on the # of support players on the builder team. By support i mean(satyr, mag, demon, dryad, possibly panda) in order of increasing feed opportunity. I include dryad and panda because dryad has far less workers and panda can use champions and/or get 200 hp workers with uh 20 gold? I mean im playing a lot of games as titan and builder where i notice that 6/10 players are demon and mag, where is the feed supposed to come from other than those players being bad..something needs to be done to fix this problem