[Needs Input] Buff Balth

[Ryld]

 You don't see very many demons go balth anymore due to the fact that he very costly and it is much better and much more cost effective for a demon to just go double summons and then tech those summons. Make balth relevant again by buffing him
 

Marked as [Needs Input], added generic poll. - Neco

[Neco]

Balth hasn't been changed at all, he's still is majorly overpowered self.

[Frankjg]

Balth is crazy strong. Just one minion kill or two and you're a powerhouse.

[13r4ndon]

Yes balth is plenty strong with demon strength and levels and it hasn't been changed. The problem is that the bones have been changed to not give levels when picked up. So unless you have balth out when you kill minions he remains at level 1 all game and as so is fairly weak considering his limited time and long cool down. If bones were changed back to the way they always were it would be a good fix. Aoe experience for builders is a bit op imo anyway.

[Neco]

Why would you not have Balth out when you kill minions? He dominates them.

[PoNy]

Why would you not have Balth out when you kill minions? He dominates them.

I think he means when a minion dies across the map to a base and your in Billy's base instead of Mandy's.

[13r4ndon]

I wouldn't have my balth out for many reasons. The main reason being you rarely get enough gold for balth before someone dies and even if you do it's better to spend that gold on fort armor and double summons for surrounding. Other reasons, balth is cd and i have an opportunity to kill a mini so i do so without it. Mostly it comes down to i don't end up getting balth till all or most of the minions are dead and the titan just delays the game.

[Frankjg]

If you're demo, you can just tech your summons and get a kill to fund the balth research.

Balth isn't supposed to come first, either. Just like a mags avatar isn't supposed to come first.

[Ryld]

If you're demo, you can just tech your summons and get a kill to fund the balth research.

Balth isn't supposed to come first, either. Just like a mags avatar isn't supposed to come first.

not necessarily
If you go early wrath with mag you can just whore gold and not worry about windwalk as you have an escape that adds 2000 hp.
Buffing balth doesn't necessarily mean making him stronger but he should be made cheaper in order to encourage using him more

[Frankjg]

Wrath pretty much should always be your first goal with mag. Balth should be your goal with demo.
Wrath is restricted because of the techtree. Balth is restricted because there are priorities (doubles, spirit link, etc) ahead of him.

Balth can really ruin a minions or even a titans day. Just don't expect to be able to just summon him and get the kill, you have to be strategical about it. For instance, don't expect a kill throwing a balth down at the gold mound. Instead, go for a kill when the titan sieges a base.

Balth isn't any weaker or any stronger than he ever was, so I don't know why exactly this is being brought up right now.

[PoNy]

 Possible Solution  : Lower Balth cost and cooldown
                           Weaken Balth
                           Give Balth upgradable levels and remove his benefit from demonic strength
                           He requires 9999999 exp so he doesn't level without upgrades or something I don't know I have no editor knowledge

[Ryld]

Wrath pretty much should always be your first goal with mag. Balth should be your goal with demo.
Wrath is restricted because of the techtree. Balth is restricted because there are priorities (doubles, spirit link, etc) ahead of him.

Balth can really ruin a minions or even a titans day. Just don't expect to be able to just summon him and get the kill, you have to be strategical about it. For instance, don't expect a kill throwing a balth down at the gold mound. Instead, go for a kill when the titan sieges a base.

Balth isn't any weaker or any stronger than he ever was, so I don't know why exactly this is being brought up right now.

It is being brought up because he is never used. The bones issue that brandon raised is a viable reason. Balth stands a low chance of leveling and isn't worth dropping all the gold on when you can spend that money on adding a bunch of techs to your double summons

[Neco]

Why would you want Bones Stealing back? Come on people, the current system is fine. If you don't have Balth out to murder minions, then that is your fault.

I personally always go for Balth when I make a merchant, since Balth + Merc summons = dead everything. You don't even need your other summons.

[Ryld]

Why would you want Bones Stealing back? Come on people, the current system is fine. If you don't have Balth out to murder minions, then that is your fault.

I personally always go for Balth when I make a merchant, since Balth + Merc summons = dead everything. You don't even need your other summons.

That isn't true unless you use venos with the other merch summons
Plus bones stealing is still around but it isn't as serious

[Frankjg]

Why would you want Bones Stealing back? Come on people, the current system is fine. If you don't have Balth out to murder minions, then that is your fault.

I personally always go for Balth when I make a merchant, since Balth + Merc summons = dead everything. You don't even need your other summons.

That isn't true unless you use venos with the other merch summons
Plus bones stealing is still around but it isn't as serious

If you can't kill something with balth+merch summons then you're doing it wrong. That's pretty much all there is to it.

[Ryld]

Why would you want Bones Stealing back? Come on people, the current system is fine. If you don't have Balth out to murder minions, then that is your fault.

I personally always go for Balth when I make a merchant, since Balth + Merc summons = dead everything. You don't even need your other summons.

That isn't true unless you use venos with the other merch summons
Plus bones stealing is still around but it isn't as serious

If you can't kill something with balth+merch summons then you're doing it wrong. That's pretty much all there is to it.

no. merch summons without venos suck for surrounding, and only have one blink. Plus if titan is competent he windwalks away early you won't have any means of catching mini without slow poison

[13r4ndon]

Well you still have your basic arachnid for slowing, but merch summons are easy to mass nuke and have quite a long cool down.

[Frankjg]

You haven't done anything but contradict everyone this entire time. I guess you're just right about everything, seeing as you always have an "answer".

But the point has already been made. Balth is incredibly strong already, and the ability for demo to get kills early on compensates for the high cost of the research.

Why would you want Bones Stealing back? Come on people, the current system is fine. If you don't have Balth out to murder minions, then that is your fault.

I personally always go for Balth when I make a merchant, since Balth + Merc summons = dead everything. You don't even need your other summons.

That isn't true unless you use venos with the other merch summons
Plus bones stealing is still around but it isn't as serious

If you can't kill something with balth+merch summons then you're doing it wrong. That's pretty much all there is to it.

no. merch summons without venos suck for surrounding, and only have one blink. Plus if titan is competent he windwalks away early you won't have any means of catching mini without slow poison

And about this, you shouldn't be trying to kill a minion when it's out in the open. If you want to secure a kill, lay low until obvious escapes aren't going to work. Wall around the base he is seiging so the minion can't wind walk away. Wall him in to force tele. That's a dead minion.

There are tons of other scenarios that minion kills are going to work with. Don't expect a titan hunter to be able to solo a minion that's just standing in the open. He's the strongest titan hunter in the game, yes, but don't forget that he's still a titan hunter. He needs levels.

[GunTroll]

If you can't kill something with balth+merch summons then you're doing it wrong. That's pretty much all there is to it.

conter = press V and rightclick

And about this, you shouldn't be trying to kill a minion when it's out in the open. If you want to secure a kill, lay low until obvious escapes aren't going to work. Wall around the base he is seiging so the minion can't wind walk away. Wall him in to force tele. That's a dead minion.

There are tons of other scenarios that minion kills are going to work with. Don't expect a titan hunter to be able to solo a minion that's just standing in the open. He's the strongest titan hunter in the game, yes, but don't forget that he's still a titan hunter. He needs levels.

^
theorycraft

as soon as a minion is walled in you can kill it with almost everything:

[Neco]

If you can't kill something with balth+merch summons then you're doing it wrong. That's pretty much all there is to it.

counter = press V and rightclick

Bring an Eye or a Tracker with you, all other hunters can as well.

[GunTroll]

If you can't kill something with balth+merch summons then you're doing it wrong. That's pretty much all there is to it.

counter = press V and rightclick

Bring an Eye or a Tracker with you, all other hunters can as well.

I bloded the last part because it bothered me, even with tracker it is not a guaranteed kill.

Demon has everything you need to kill a minion but in a game of 10 vs 1 you should not be able to solo a minion ..... easiely. i think balth as a damage dealer is fine. He is almost unkillable in a normal situation, very mobile and can carry items. I would not mind some abillitys, the sacrifice idea sounded like a good idea.

[Unanimous]

Where do you even need balthazar?

By the time you can get him up and running, all the minions should have been killed by a competent demo with double summons. And any heroes who have been participating in this are high lvl enough to hunt any future minions and possibly the titan himself.

Minions are way too squishy.

[theorchero]

Are you kidding? bone stealing is worse. Now they just view it as a cool item, and that it doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the first asshole to steal it from you.

[Frankjg]

If you can't kill something with balth+merch summons then you're doing it wrong. That's pretty much all there is to it.

counter = press V and rightclick

Bring an Eye or a Tracker with you, all other hunters can as well.

I bloded the last part because it bothered me, even with tracker it is not a guaranteed kill.

Demon has everything you need to kill a minion but in a game of 10 vs 1 you should not be able to solo a minion ..... easiely. i think balth as a damage dealer is fine. He is almost unkillable in a normal situation, very mobile and can carry items. I would not mind some abillitys, the sacrifice idea sounded like a good idea.

I'm saying you're doing it wrong because you shouldn't expect to kill a minion that's sitting at the mound just by throwing your hunter at him.

[theorchero]

you don't, not unless you have a lvl 12 balth and if you do you're better off going after the titan 1v1 lmao.

still, the new bones system is a blow to balth, if he isn't around he doesn't get levels, and anyone who is arguing that you should be killing minions, fine, but what if you are chasing a minion with windcatcher, and he manages to run enough that balth expires before you kill?

Oh, and let him keep his items when he dies, it's dumb that he drops it when he expires -.-