Frankjg
Titan Hunter
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Posts: 538
Revenant_ at US East
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« on: August 03, 2011, 02:09:50 PM » |
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Someone suggested this within another topic and I had been thinking about it for a while now. I apologize to whoever I stole this from, I don't remember who it was or what topic it was in, but it went something like this: Morphling beast form seems very powerful, primarily with its ability to rewall constantly with its new regeneration. It's normally not really a problem, since morphling is not usually played very well. But even if 1% of the players that play morphling play it in a way that it's overpowered without abusing, it's still not an excuse for that 1% to be overpowered. So, this was the solution. Remove beast forms ability to build walls. Instead, it would build... Lumber Pile Health ----- 150 Armor ----- 5 (fortified) Build Time --- 1.5 seconds It would work the same way as a wall, but it would prevent him from being a walling powerhouse while still having all of that damage/utility of hunting. Again, sorry to whoever originally suggested this. |
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Coaster_Man
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 02:44:18 PM » |
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No, then he is useless.
Except for killing minis, but still.
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Pirate is an octopus in disguise!
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PoNy
Beta Tester
Titanious Minion
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Liked ponies before they were cool
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 04:40:31 PM » |
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No one has a problem with Magnataur's avatar and Tauren's rage.
Magna even gets magic immunity so you can't bounce any nukes off him while he is rewalling.
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SuramarXStealth
Spearloc
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Fear the drow, fear Drizzt Do'Urden.
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 09:34:28 PM » |
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No one has a problem with Magnataur's avatar and Tauren's rage.
Magna even gets magic immunity so you can't bounce any nukes off him while he is rewalling.
the dif is, those aren't permanent. Mag can't gold in avatar and neither can tauren. While I'm against removing morphs rewall ability in beast for simply because he has 0 regeneration unless he has towers, I do agree that currently he needs to be changed back to how he was. (He has 0.1 regen/s or something simple like that in .8e) |
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Oh shit!
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Neco
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 09:48:23 PM » |
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0.01 actually, and it's there so that the regeneration upgrade works (since having nothing there breaks the upgrade).
The resulting value is 4.01 HP per second, which is 0.01 higher than your average builder.
However, continue your discussions with this new information in mind.
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 Novynn@Azeroth  | Novynn@Lordaeron  | Novynn@Northrend  |
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MuDDy_PaNDa
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 11:01:20 PM » |
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Would make morphling useless.
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  The MuDDy_PaNDa is a new animal. He has been created by the breeding of a panda and a makrura together. Their breeding had created a strange animal covered in mud. |
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Coaster_Man
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2011, 12:19:47 AM » |
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No one has a problem with Magnataur's avatar and Tauren's rage.
Magna even gets magic immunity so you can't bounce any nukes off him while he is rewalling.
the dif is, those aren't permanent. Mag can't gold in avatar and neither can tauren. While I'm against removing morphs rewall ability in beast for simply because he has 0 regeneration unless he has towers, I do agree that currently he needs to be changed back to how he was. (He has 0.1 regen/s or something simple like that in .8e) Because morph beast can. |
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Pirate is an octopus in disguise!
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PoNy
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Titanious Minion
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Liked ponies before they were cool
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2011, 11:48:45 AM » |
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You have to remember as well that morph beast is the weakest of the three transformations.
Magnataurs Avatar is the best, magic immunity is too valuable for walling, he also keeps all his skills like wind walk and his slow orb.
Tauren has a decent one since he keeps his rage and gains a stun and still has his ranged attack. (Don't forget the healing ward)
Morphling has... slow poison, and nuke with a speed roar but has average regen and no way to get back in after being nuked...
Because Morphling's health pool is so bad he is forced to turn back to warrior to regen it up before returning back to heal faster or he would be useless.
What regens faster? 4.01 per a second on 400 health or 1850 from 10% to 100%?
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Frankjg
Titan Hunter
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Posts: 538
Revenant_ at US East
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2011, 01:00:35 PM » |
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Well I had thought that the idea of morphling's beast form was a hunter, and that the warrior form was designed to rewall. It seems strange that he would need two forms that both do the same thing in different things, but it could be that I was just mistaken about morphling's intended role.
That brings up something interesting. Why does morphling have two forms that do the same thing in different ways? Would it not be more beneficial to have different purposes for each form?
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Ryld
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2011, 01:18:21 AM » |
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Obvious answer is to bring back morph caster
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Signatures are overrated!
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Neco
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2011, 01:26:19 AM » |
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Obvious answer is to bring back morph caster
AKA a Morph -> Faerie ability  . |
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Novynn@Azeroth | Novynn@Lordaeron | Novynn@Northrend |
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PoNy
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2011, 09:35:12 PM » |
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Beast is better at roaming the map while staying safe while warrior has practical abilities to defend while throwing out safe damage.
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Frankjg
Titan Hunter
Karma: +8/-7
Posts: 538
Revenant_ at US East
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 01:59:25 PM » |
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But the beast would be much better suited for throwing out safe damage, wouldn't he? He doesn't crit, but he has much more health so he won't be nuked down easily, and he also deals chaos damage for a more sustained damage instead of RNG damage. Not to mention a strong slow poison and a ranged snare.
Warrior would most likely deal more damage with pokes, but it is at much more of a risk from nukes and such.
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PoNy
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 03:08:46 PM » |
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Warrior has a heavy shockwave, and thunderclap. Beast has his single target poison thingy and no regen, or ability to lumber. In most cases beast will be forced to switch back to warrior who has the better skills to defend anyways.
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Frankjg
Titan Hunter
Karma: +8/-7
Posts: 538
Revenant_ at US East
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 07:23:59 PM » |
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I'm not argueing that the beast forms abilities are better, but his sheer amount of health and armor make it near impossible for the titan to nuke him down. And he does have regen if you get the upgrade.
Even with out it, people that play morph usually just stack up regen pots anyway. At least warrior form has a weakness other than being caught in a seed.
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Guppys
Worker
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 12:57:33 PM » |
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I'm not argueing that the beast forms abilities are better, but his sheer amount of health and armor make it near impossible for the titan to nuke him down. And he does have regen if you get the upgrade.
Even with out it, people that play morph usually just stack up regen pots anyway. At least warrior form has a weakness other than being caught in a seed.
Are you saying the only way to beat a base with a mag is to nuke hes usually around 700 hp with avatar thats up 2/3 of the time and 6 hp/s? |
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Frankjg
Titan Hunter
Karma: +8/-7
Posts: 538
Revenant_ at US East
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 01:47:18 PM » |
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I'm sorry, I don't understand. I was talking about beast form versus warrior form for the morphling builder.
Btw, a mag shouldn't have 700 hp in a normal game. Just sayin'.
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Guppys
Worker
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 04:16:32 PM » |
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I'm sorry, I don't understand. I was talking about beast form versus warrior form for the morphling builder.
Btw, a mag shouldn't have 700 hp in a normal game. Just sayin'.
Well warrior and beast do not differ much... I was talking about the general point of the thread which seems to be "morph beast is op". and if a morph can have beast form in a game a mag can get 700 hp and avatar since they do not have to lumber base and can gold earlier. |
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Ryld
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 04:17:19 PM » |
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I wouldn't be against buffing morph beast. Giving all the high costs of fully teching it, it isn't that powerful
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Signatures are overrated!
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Frankjg
Titan Hunter
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Posts: 538
Revenant_ at US East
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2011, 06:16:22 AM » |
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I would much rather give it a different purpose than warrior form. Perhaps make the warrior form have the more defensive abilities, to make it the defender type. Then beast form could be used as the hunter type. I guess I'm just brainstorming, but it really does seem unnecessary to have two forms that do the same thing in different ways. Well warrior and beast do not differ much... I was talking about the general point of the thread which seems to be "morph beast is op". and if a morph can have beast form in a game a mag can get 700 hp and avatar since they do not have to lumber base and can gold earlier.
Beast form would be a late-game addition, after the gold penalty. If you have it early or even mid game, the titan isn't doing his job correctly. A mag would be lucky to get polar wrath before gold penalty, let alone 700 health. You don't get over 90 gold that early in a normal game. |
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Guppys
Worker
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« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2011, 07:16:33 AM » |
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Beast form 85g for 16 fort armor and 1450 heatlh. 0 regen at this point.
Polar wrath is 75g for 2 fort armor 2250 heatlh and spell immunity snowman.
If this is past GP like you said mag would have had more gold due to lack of lumber basing. Once they have these forms morph's lumber rate is slowed while mag never loses his. Morph beast goes on to get 2 punishable poisons and a speed increase making him useful for hunting and safely rewalling he has no nukes in beast form but while in warrior form he can nuke out 550 (I think slam is 150 can't remember). Mag gets all in one form blizzard, hypothermia (though it wont stay on long it's still amazing), snowman and around the same slows as morph beast. Mag gets better walls morph with merchant has 800 hp 15 fort armor mag has 750 (forgetting again) and 25 fort armor. If morph towered aswell needs alot of lumber. Even if you can nuke down 450 heatlh before he gets back he can just hit avatar before he dies. Avatar's downtime isn't enough to really hurt rewalling at all.
I would be fine with making morph beast less costly and adding more upgrades so he's not as stale...
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Ryld
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« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2011, 01:16:54 AM » |
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Agreed, soloing a mini with beast is difficult unless the titan is an idiot. Sure you have the spell which slows them down but once that wears off its simple for the mini to just take off or ww away
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Signatures are overrated!
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Lucifer(SA)
Murloc
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Posts: 54
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2011, 07:22:50 AM » |
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The replicator tower is a great tool for hunting down minions easy solo on a minion lvl 5 maybe can take a 6 with a regn tower also
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PoNy
Beta Tester
Titanious Minion
Karma: +23/-9
Posts: 935
Liked ponies before they were cool
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2011, 02:53:25 PM » |
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The replicator tower is a great tool for hunting down minions easy solo on a minion lvl 5 maybe can take a 6 with a regn tower also
Beast sucks, we all know it. Other then his useful AoE speed roar he's pretty useless. |
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burn
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2011, 11:07:05 AM » |
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If morphling was so overpowered then more people will be playing it. Period.
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