Lumber! Get your Lumber!

[Frankjg]

I've noticed that a builder can easily pool another builder with a huge amount of lumber without resource trading.

Process:
Share control with a golder that has spare lumber.
Send a speed turtle up to the secret shop.
Have the person you shared with purchase every item that you can buy with lumber.
Sell the items yourself and you will be rewarded with the the lumber instead of the person you shared with.


Doing so you can easily pool a baser to all supers by the 15 minute mark. Especially as satyr. Add multiple people pooling you and that's one fed builder.

[VAMPSI]

...how long have you been playing ID? This is well known in pubs.n

[sickle]

Another bug:

You can send your speed turtle to buy turtle scales and give them to other players to sell for lumber.

[SuramarXStealth]

this kid is always posting stuff like this lol. He doesn't realise that's what it's for.

[kyleep]

Has been like this for while, but I feel it's a cheap tactic and has been amplified considerably.  It use to be just scale, which had a long cd and gave only 150 for 300.  (The 2nd purchase of scale is really long, not the first apparently.)  Merchant items that could also be used to transfer wood to wood, but that required 45 gold and a base to place it in.

then increased to
1) Enchanted Stone(Demon) 250 (free)
2) Soul Wand (Demon) 250 wood for 500 wood
3) Eye of ocean 750 wood for 1500 (Use to cost gold)
4) Replenish Potion 300 for 600(Use to cost gold)
5) Scroll of beast 400 for 800 (Use to cost gold)
6) Trident 600 for 1200
7) Armor of Scale 450 for 900
Shadow Stone 500 for 1000
(Er 8 and ) makes smiley face)
And most of them have a much shorter cd than the scale.

[GunTroll]

i would like to see this fixed.

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

This has been there since secret shop was added.

[SuramarXStealth]

You could do this before in .6 versions anyway, only difference is there are a few more items now.

[Zen1400]

The only problem with this is that titan can kill the turtle and you just gave him about 10+ gold worth it items. That said I remember top left was the best place to do it because turtle could just blink over wall, buy and blink back in to base without risking much.

[ArtFuL]

I've noticed that a builder can easily pool another builder with a huge amount of lumber without resource trading.

Process:
Share control with a golder that has spare lumber.
Send a speed turtle up to the secret shop.
Have the person you shared with purchase every item that you can buy with lumber.
Sell the items yourself and you will be rewarded with the the lumber instead of the person you shared with.


Doing so you can easily pool a baser to all supers by the 15 minute mark. Especially as satyr. Add multiple people pooling you and that's one fed builder.

I don't fucking get why you are crying.
If it's a problem for you just camp or pearl the shops.
You can get items which are dropped anyway and like kyleep said all these items and merch..

[SuramarXStealth]

About the point where you can have multiple builders pool one baser, that would require 2+ turtles as well, most builders have 1 inventory slot so they would need to use either
A) the hunter (most people after a point don't hold turtle on one anymore)
B) another turtle slot, making it so you have one less slot to fill with items
C) The items have a cooldown, so you can't reall use multiple turtles now can you? You would need another source of feed suh as merchant, mass RC's or titan not picking shit up. (I always make sure to kill shit I can't pick up so builders can't use it.)

[Ryld]

The only problem with this is that titan can kill the turtle and you just gave him about 10+ gold worth it items. That said I remember top left was the best place to do it because turtle could just blink over wall, buy and blink back in to base without risking much.

Assuming the turtle holds many items at once when its killed which is unlikely

[kyleep]

I'd liked to add that if the turtle dies in the water, the items don't pop back out on land.  It disappears.   So you can use the shift command to pretty much avoid giving him the items.

Alternatively, you can sell it at your or other's research center.  Turtle has blink and is pretty fast.

[Frankjg]

With shared control you don't even need to move the turtle unless you want to avoid feeding the 1g. Just have the person you've shared with buy them. When you sell them, the player that owns the unit carrying the items gets the lumber.

I didn't intend for this to come off as a complaint. I simply feel this throws the balance off if any game that it's used in. If the titan successfully chokes off the baser's lumber supply, which in some cases can be very difficult, then other builders shouldn't be able to compensate for that so effectively.

[ArtFuL]

With shared control you don't even need to move the turtle unless you want to avoid feeding the 1g. Just have the person you've shared with buy them. When you sell them, the player that owns the unit carrying the items gets the lumber.

I didn't intend for this to come off as a complaint. I simply feel this throws the balance off if any game that it's used in. If the titan successfully chokes off the baser's lumber supply, which in some cases can be very difficult, then other builders shouldn't be able to compensate for that so effectively.

Pro you.

1) you can't trade wood in the early game because you don't even have so much
2) Camp with a mini or pearl
3) @ novynn: the items drop in the water
4) I don't get what your problem is.
    Not many pubs are even thinking about doing it and selling merch stuff knows everyone.
    If the titan isn't a retard it's balanced.  you can't make games balanced for players who don't use their brains.

[Frankjg]

Camping is pretty detrimental to the titan. It also leaves the minion open to ganks.

There are a lot of problems that arise from this being so powerful. Seems the best solution would be to just fix it.
Why do you have a problem with that?

[VAMPSI]

Fix idea: remove items

[Frankjg]

You could always just lower the amount that they sell for.

[Gwypaas]

Camping is pretty detrimental to the titan. It also leaves the minion open to ganks.

There are a lot of problems that arise from this being so powerful. Seems the best solution would be to just fix it.
Why do you have a problem with that?

He's a builder only player, don't ever think that he'll look at the titan side of anything.

[Frankjg]

Camping is pretty detrimental to the titan. It also leaves the minion open to ganks.

There are a lot of problems that arise from this being so powerful. Seems the best solution would be to just fix it.
Why do you have a problem with that?

He's a builder only player, don't ever think that he'll look at the titan side of anything.

Ah, makes sense now. :3

[SuramarXStealth]

Camping is pretty detrimental to the titan. It also leaves the minion open to ganks.

There are a lot of problems that arise from this being so powerful. Seems the best solution would be to just fix it.
Why do you have a problem with that?

Honestly I have no problem at all with this, and I've played titan constantly. Kyleep I know your arguement is the fact that there are so many items to sell, but out of 10 games how many times is this a problem really?

I'd say maybe 4 for me. and then they still have to resummon as i siege so I can just kill it.

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

Camping is pretty detrimental to the titan. It also leaves the minion open to ganks.

There are a lot of problems that arise from this being so powerful. Seems the best solution would be to just fix it.
Why do you have a problem with that?

Honestly I have no problem at all with this, and I've played titan constantly. Kyleep I know your arguement is the fact that there are so many items to sell, but out of 10 games how many times is this a problem really?

I'd say maybe 4 for me. and then they still have to resummon as i siege so I can just kill it.

40% is almost half, its significant.

[kyleep]

Camping is pretty detrimental to the titan. It also leaves the minion open to ganks.

There are a lot of problems that arise from this being so powerful. Seems the best solution would be to just fix it.
Why do you have a problem with that?

Honestly I have no problem at all with this, and I've played titan constantly. Kyleep I know your arguement is the fact that there are so many items to sell, but out of 10 games how many times is this a problem really?

I'd say maybe 4 for me. and then they still have to resummon as i siege so I can just kill it.

It being uncommon is not an argument for leaving it as it is.  I would imagine it would be more common in ih, or even friends playing with each other.

It wasn't that big of a problem back then because there wasn't that many items to buy for the other person, without having a merchant.

I haven't played much lately, but I played a game with monkey and nukkah about 2 days ago.  There were some early deaths and I pooled him with those items.  I knew it was cheap and dirty, but I still did it.  If I played more, I could easily see me doing this again or asking them to do it for me.

I can see this being a problem, especially during early game, even though you say that they don't have the wood for it.  Say there's an early minion.  Your demon, goblin, or any other gold dependent race.  What else should you do if you know that the minion isn't going to die?  I'm going to wall the dude, and just pool him all day.

Having to sit a minion there to baby sit a shop or having to constantly pearl the spot is not exactly what I would called balanced.   And I would disagree that even if you did so, it would be easy to stop the trade.  No one has perfect map awareness.  Having to seige a base, noticing the mini-map, and then having to skip over to the shop to stop that stupid turtle is not an easy task.  If this was the case, my nature army would never come near a minion.

And how exactly can you counter this if they are goblin, murloc, pirate with hunters?

But the focus of this argument should not be that it is stoppable or is uncommon.  The better question that should be raised is, how exactly is having the ability to give someone your wood good or balanced for the game?

[SuramarXStealth]

Camping is pretty detrimental to the titan. It also leaves the minion open to ganks.

There are a lot of problems that arise from this being so powerful. Seems the best solution would be to just fix it.
Why do you have a problem with that?

Honestly I have no problem at all with this, and I've played titan constantly. Kyleep I know your arguement is the fact that there are so many items to sell, but out of 10 games how many times is this a problem really?

I'd say maybe 4 for me. and then they still have to resummon as i siege so I can just kill it.

It being uncommon is not an argument for leaving it as it is.  I would imagine it would be more common in ih, or even friends playing with each other.

It wasn't that big of a problem back then because there wasn't that many items to buy for the other person, without having a merchant.

I haven't played much lately, but I played a game with monkey and nukkah about 2 days ago.  There were some early deaths and I pooled him with those items.  I knew it was cheap and dirty, but I still did it.  If I played more, I could easily see me doing this again or asking them to do it for me.

I can see this being a problem, especially during early game, even though you say that they don't have the wood for it.  Say there's an early minion.  Your demon, goblin, or any other gold dependent race.  What else should you do if you know that the minion isn't going to die?  I'm going to wall the dude, and just pool him all day.

Having to sit a minion there to baby sit a shop or having to constantly pearl the spot is not exactly what I would called balanced.   And I would disagree that even if you did so, it would be easy to stop the trade.  No one has perfect map awareness.  Having to seige a base, noticing the mini-map, and then having to skip over to the shop to stop that stupid turtle is not an easy task.  If this was the case, my nature army would never come near a minion.

And how exactly can you counter this if they are goblin, murloc, pirate with hunters?

But the focus of this argument should not be that it is stoppable or is uncommon.  The better question that should be raised is, how exactly is having the ability to give someone your wood good or balanced for the game?

As I said it's uncommon in pub games, but yes you have a point, now there are more items. Prehaps we can simply increase the cd? It'd be a pain when buying for egg items but that can easily be fixed by using turtle to pick up scales/tridants/tp staff when the titan leaves them behind.

[Zen1400]

Or a simpler solution, no resale value on anything. Yeah you wouldn't get anything back for legitimately buying something and selling it once you don't need it, but this solves the entire problem of pooling. Obviously titan would still keep the ability to sell items for gold.