The Lupus

[sickle]

Lupus

Lupus is a rather unique builder.  It has a very specific play style, that most people would not like at first.  However, he is really unique.  I was inspired to make him when I, with my friends, pretended to be a ghost wolf that was eating people at the local baseball fields on a longboard.  But, you know, that's not really important to Lupus.  Lupus is a wolf, and a bit of a hybrid.  He was inspired to be the fix for the broken concept of Satyr Shadowdancer.

Also, most (almost all) of the suggestions for a wolf builder have shitty vampire/werewolf themes.  This does not.  A wolf is an animal, not a half-animal.

At first I wanted him to be like the Morphling beast form, but that felt wrong.  What I eventually decided on was a wolf with the power to do what wolves usually do.  His prowl is a very powerful ability, but not too powerful to make him a repeat of Satyr's invisibility.  He also has his very powerful wolf senses which allow him to hunt the titan.  His drawback is his lack of basing ability, he's sort of useless for basing.  His walls do have a slight feedback, the buff Bleeding, which is part of the basis of Lupus.

He uses the power of his enemies' bleeding, and many of his attacks draw blood, to unleash powerful attacks with animal instincts.  In fact, he even gains the power to regain focus and attack enemy units (breaking movement impairing effects) if he has been around long enough.

Interestingly, he is the first builder to make use of a modified camera.  When using his Prowl ability, the camera is locked onto him and the screen gets dark, making it more challenging to play while prowled.  Hopefully this makes him unique, but not too special.

Now that I've given you a brief introduction, I'll get into his buildings and their basic uses.  Buildings seemed like the easiest place to start.

Buildings
Lupus has human building style, however his building speed is slower than normal.  It takes him a full four seconds to build a wall, which is a rather big deal in a fast paced chase.  What's more, his building breaks his wind walk, and his buildings are below average in quality, and even his basic research center costs a lot of wood.  Wolves are not civilized animals, so their gathering is pretty bad, too.

         Den (Shelter)
         
         Health: 300
         Mana: N/A
         Icon: BTNHardenedSkin.blp
         Model: Large Rock
         Description: The Den is a drop off point for collected lumber, and a breeding place for females. [No lumber researches are available here.]
         Upgrades to: Altar

         Stick Pile (Basic Wall)
         
         Health: 300 HP
         Mana: N/A
         Icon: BTNThornyShieldOff.blp
         Model: An invisible dummy unit with spiked upgrades.
         Description: The Stick Pile is really just a sharp pile of sticks constructed by the alpha male.  Enemy units that attack the stick pile will begin to bleed.

         Altar (Research Center)
         
         Health: 500 HP
         Mana: N/A
         Icon: BTNAltarOfStorms.blp
         Model: A shaman with zero animation speed, colored brown like wood.
         Description: The wolves are not very crafty animals, but intelligent enough to make bad sculptures.  Their god, an orcish patron of wolves, will lend them help through it.

                   Haste
                   
                   Lumber Cost: 750 Lumber
                   Gold Cost: N/A
                   Description: This ability [different from Harvester Speed Upgrade] provides the harvesters for Lupus with a small increase in speed.

                   Advanced Prowling
                   
                   Lumber Cost: 1000 Lumber
                   Gold Cost: N/A
                   Description: With the blessings of the gods, after a small sacrifice of resources, the Lupus gains the power to prowl in the daytime.

         Merchant
         
         Health: 1,000 HP
         Mana: N/A
         Sells: Standard Merchant items
         Model: Goblin Merchant
         Description: [The standard merchant description.]

As you can see, his building is extremely limited.  He can build only a simple research center with trivial upgrades, a merchant, shelters, and very weak walls.  His wall, I want to point out, does give the bleeding buff, which becomes very important for how Lupus hunts.  Ultimately the bleeding buff makes up for the weakness of his building.  Also, do not forget that he's made to replace Satyr, so it is not like you're going to have a few Satyrs and Lupi in the game at once that can not base.  As a small note, the Lupus can prowl before Advanced Prowling is researched, however he can not prowl during the day without it.

Abilities
Abilities are the true strength of the Lupus.  Lupus can strategically attack his enemies with the power of true animal instincts.

          Slash
         
          Mana Cost: N/A
          Requires: No Researches
          Cooldown: N/A
          Description: When the Lupus attacks a unit [of any owner], it will draw blood and make the unit bleed.

          Prowl
         
          Mana Cost: N/A
          Requires: No Researches
          Cooldown: 3 Seconds
          Description: The Lupus uses his natural ability to blend in with the environment and prowl about.  Enemy units can not see the prowled Lupus, and the Lupus' camera is locked onto him.
          The edges of the screen turn black, making it hard for the Lupus to see far from him.  The minimap, however, still remains active, and all bleeding units appear as large dots of the bleeding unit's color.
          A prowled wolf is not completely invisible, however, as that requires the work of magic, of which the Lupus has little.  A prowled Lupus, although seemingly invisible, can be seen by an enemy unit if very close.

         Abilities (Spellbook)
         
         Description: If you live among wolves you have to act like a wolf.

                    Fine Senses
                   
                    Mana Cost: N/A
                    Requires: 20 minutes of game play
                    Cooldown: 120 Seconds
                    Description: When the Lupus is stunned or slowed, it can use the smell of blood to regain focus.  If any nearby units are bleeding, the Lupus
                    will shed its movement impairing affects and charge the bleeding unit.

                    The Wolf Within
                   
                    Mana Cost: N/A
                    Cooldown: 360 Seconds
                    Description: The true power of the Lupus is released.  He transforms for five minutes into a more powerful version of himself, with 1000 bonus
                    health, increased movement and attack speed, and he goes into his prowl.  The Lupus must draw blood at least once a minute in order to stay in this form.
                    The Lupus must be prowled and around blood to initiate The Wolf Within.

                    Strength In Numbers
                   
                    Mana Cost: N/A
                    Cooldown: N/A
                    Description: Alone, a Lupus is not very valuable.  The Lupus can not attack if there are no nearby titan hunters or island defenders.

As you can see, his combat is based upon two things.  (1) The ability to use blood and use prowl in combination, and (2) The ability to use his avatar.

History
This is the history of the Lupus, how it has been changed, and all modifications to the post. 

1.0.0 (5/31/2011)
   - Initial Release

[Jux.Mage]

It's harder for Lupus to get any units to feed blood off of. It's more harder to play this builder than Morphling.

What's the movement speed of Lupus? He would be more easier to die against a Titan when he golds at middle..

[sickle]

Faster.  He's faster than the others, faster than a Titan, his slowed move speed (prowl) is equal to a normal builders.

[Jumby]

Is it done, because he seems to be lacking alot of research and abilities. But all around cool concept. Does he have 300 hp and what armor? And what rate do his workers harvest at.

[SuramarXStealth]

If I may say one thing, Please keep satyr if this guy is implemented, just change him back to the way he was before like in .6e. Satyr can be a game breaker, if he's good enough he can solo a running minion (or tank it late game) he can wall trap very easily, ect ect. The down side to satyr is that more than likely he will die, as most people don't realize, Invisibility =/= Invincibility.

On topic: This guy seems like a great idea, would he end up being a hunter late game? Or would he be pure support? The prowl is a good idea, the increased base ms, and the bleeding buff sounds cool.

[PoNy]

Strength in numbers Rework idea
reduce his normal attack to something lower then average. Every unit controlled by the lupus will give it more damage. Example: If the lupus player has 1 unit it will get +1 or if he has 10 units he will get +15or so ish etc, Merchant summons will count to this buff and the initial idea came from this custom campaign I played with a skill called Tribalism.

Possible skills
Reserve:
Drops a reserved corpse which has bleed on it at current location, the bleeding corpse has 300 health and slowly loses health. It is also magic immune.

Mark:
Marks the titan with a dummy invulnerable unit that leaves a green trail as the titan walks for 5 seconds. The trail gives small amounts of vision same with the dummy unit.

Pounce:
The lupus begins to pounce the target location, should take around 2-3 seconds. Has a specific stance for it. The Lupus then pounces at the target location applying bleed to all enemy units and does XXX damage along with a slow if the target was facing the direction the lupus was or a stun if his back was turned towards the lupus.

Cloak of the night:
The Lupus adapts the glow of the night and removes all debuffs on him while gaining 90% magic damage reduction for 2 seconds.
Can only be used at night.

Astral sprint:
The Lupus gains 30% movement speed for 4 seconds, while sprinting he is also ethereal, can only be used in the day.

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

Good concept, but how much faster than a titan is he going to be exactly, i know this is numbers, but i need to know to see how he would be kinda played.

[sickle]

>Strength in numbers Rework idea
I like your version better, will update.

>Reserve
Like it, will also add in a research for it.

>Mark
Not worth it

>Cloak of the night
Needs something to do with blood but I'll work something like it.

>Astral sprint
I'll add something like this, too.

>Good concept, but how much faster than a titan is he going to be exactly, i know this is numbers, but i need to know to see how he would be kinda played.
Let's say ~100 movespeed, possibly less, not sure.  I have to open World Editor (JASSHelper bugs make me sad) and tweak it, but somewhere around 80-120 faster if my memory of movespeed serves me correctly.

[Coaster_Man]

I think he needs more skills for extra damage, seeing how he doesn't really have any attack skills save the bleed and avatar. Perhaps charge skill, like the assassin from diablo. Each hit charges up his might, and then on the third hit he releases the energy dealing XX extra damage. Either that or an incinerate.

[ArtFuL]

I also like the concept but aren't four seconds for the walls/rc a little bit too much?

First of all, it's a good thing that he even has walls so if someone dies in the early game he's still a bit useful..
But I didnt get his escape spells, yet.
His fast ms > normal builders/titans and what else?

Also if he gets a supporter/hunter who has to upgrade a lot of things and he doesn't have workers which are "useful" then add him 15wood/hit or something like that?

And won't the publics feed quite a lot with the walls if more walls -> more bleed -> more useful but the walls are weak?

[sickle]

>I think he needs more skills for extra damage
Definitely.

>And won't the publics feed quite a lot with the walls if more walls -> more bleed -> more useful but the walls are weak?
Bleeding doesn't stack.

>then add him 15wood/hit or something like that?
Yes, like morphling he should have his own high lumbering with below average workers.

Changes I'm planning on:

• More attack abilities
• More building (2 or 3)
• More research

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

I do think this could be pretty good, but put off the camera lock for prowling, its just gonna be gay and annoying.
Keep the reduced vision tho.

[sickle]

>gay
Tis the point.  It makes it hard.  It makes it so you can't micro your summons far away.  It makes it so you can't see what's ahead.

[PoNy]

Possible fix for prowl:

New passive

Alert!:
When the Lupus is detected in prowl it is alerted coming out of prowl and begins to panic. The Lupus gains 40% movement speed in this time and can't be slowed.

Prowl:
(Add on) Can't be used when in enemy vision.

[Jux.Mage]

Isn't that like Satyr's Sixth Sense? (That was going to be implemented?)

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

>gay
Tis the point.  It makes it hard.  It makes it so you can't micro your summons far away.  It makes it so you can't see what's ahead.

Then it will just become a less powerful tauren, but that has a different concept.

[PoNy]

>gay
Tis the point.  It makes it hard.  It makes it so you can't micro your summons far away.  It makes it so you can't see what's ahead.

Then it will just become a less powerful tauren, but that has a different concept.

This is more skill mashing and less auto attacking.

[GunTroll]

Faster.  He's faster than the others, faster than a Titan, his slowed move speed (prowl) is equal to a normal builders.

#

i dont think its a good idea to make him faster then the titan. why did you put so much effort in a suggestion that contains almost nothing of intrest?

[GunTroll]

this wasnt a rethorical question and im not pretentious. i just dont understand why you post this garbage with a giant ass intro just to show us 3 spells and a bit of concept. I also question your game sense, you are trying to replace perma invis satyr with a builder that can outrun the titan no matter what he does. dont come up with slows, wand of the wind and other stuff like that. Most titans do not have a ranged slow and wotw is very expensive especcialy in the early game.

just so you dont have to open up the WE titan ms is 400 and speed turtle is 520
i dont think the combination of crazy high ms and a +1000hp avatar works very well. I dislike the trend of people only posting suggestions of suporters and hunters. Its a tag game and imo most builders should be focused on defending themselfs. i think all basers should be hunter/caster/baser hybrids but so far all casters and hybrids feel somewhat akward as basing and getting special abilitys wont work very well together.
Tauren is a good example

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

this wasnt a rethorical question and im not pretentious. i just dont understand why you post this garbage with a giant ass intro just to show us 3 spells and a bit of concept. I also question your game sense, you are trying to replace perma invis satyr with a builder that can outrun the titan no matter what he does. dont come up with slows, wand of the wind and other stuff like that. Most titans do not have a ranged slow and wotw is very expensive especcialy in the early game.

just so you dont have to open up the WE titan ms is 400 and speed turtle is 520
i dont think the combination of crazy high ms and a +1000hp avatar works very well. I dislike the trend of people only posting suggestions of suporters and hunters. Its a tag game and imo most builders should be focused on defending themselfs. i think all basers should be hunter/caster/baser hybrids but so far all casters and hybrids feel somewhat akward as basing and getting special abilitys wont work very well together.
Tauren is a good example

Garbage?

Gosh, does everything that is differently played get presumed right off the bat as ''garbage''?
his play style is different, and that is what ID had been missing this whole time.
Different. Playstyles.
doing the same old shit over and over gets boring at one point.
I dont agree with the fact that there arent enough spells, it fits his playstyle, hes more of a brute force attacker. Its like saying you want to make a sword fight have 20+ different sword slashes, it doesnt fit.
Last, if he wants to put a brief intro, why not? is it your time that is taken to make it? Nope, just dont read it.

stop the trolling, and try helping other people to better their concept.

[Coaster_Man]

blahblahblah

blahblahblah

How exactly is this an amazingly unique "new play style"? It's just an invisible wolf that moves fast. Whoopdeedoo? I assume sickle hasn't finished it, because it seems like half a builder. You could say that builders don't need to have a million skills to use, but it happens to be boring with no skills.
Oh and by the way wand of the wind is easy to obtain early game, and against this builder it is a very easy kill, because after you hit him one with your slow poi he's a sitting duck.

[sburnett21]

Why don't you guys stop arguing with each other and actually help with this suggestion. That might actually make it a likeablee builder without to much stress. If you don't like it then don't comment or annoy those that'd like to better this.

[GunTroll]

is there a reason why you avoid answering my post directly? no matter what you think of me and my real character, if you really have confidence in your suggestion, why you 'dodge' like this?

i stated it before that i think you act like a dick. The constant usage of memes and short harmful comments makes me feel like you are trying to look "high and mighty". I dont think this is neccesary. I am also getting tired of editors that promise something they wont keep ( this isnt directed to you in general and im not saying i would do any better because i also like to say things and then never finish them). I log on this forum almost daily, although i dont play this game as much as i used to, and wait for something to happen. My mood is always very negative because of the past dissapointments, the sluggish progression of the development and the constant bullshit about the community dieing (wich is true although its not very rapid and not the biggest problem).

I want to say sorry for my past behavior and the douchbaggery i have commited, not only to sickle but also to every other forum member/player i have annoyed. However this doesnt mean i think this is a good suggestion. I feel like what i said is true although i could have said it in a more constructive fashion.

[Smygarn]

If its a full opinion you want from the suggestion, I'll take the time to be unnecessary and write one. Since you said at the start this should be a replacement for the Satyr, I will be using the current satyr as a standing point in my arguments, if you dont mind.

     /000=============000\
   /00          Builder           00\
 < 00         Structures         00>
   \00  Abilities & Upgrades  00/
     \000=============000/

1. Builder
In order to really start this opinion, I will be taking a glance at the most important unit, the Builder itself:

Have you forgotten to add place-holders regarding attributes such as hit points, armor, mana and MS,AS? Or is it that you left the readers to judge these by themselves and simply go with the standard?
The only thing you mentioned was his ordinary movement speed being faster than the other builders, a pretty weak trait if we cant see a placeholder to give us an extent. Well, for the sake of argument i'll simply go with +65 ms to a gnoll (20 below unwebbed titan).

2. Buildings
Okay, finally some place-holders for me to look at. Even though you still missed armor, size and costs alltogether, i'll go with the Satyr standard again.

The Shelter is basically a 300 hit point, *5* fortified armor that the builder can use as a lumbering point. With no other ?wolves?, the buildings play out piss poor in difference comparison to the Satyr. I need not say anything more in regards to this, but the upgrades will hopefully be better to talk about.

3. Abiliites & Upgrades
Seems like it is your shining point of the suggestion, so lets focus on it.

The ability lets you draw blood and inflict a dps on the enemy. No place-holders are listed this time either.
Reading the suggestion confirms this ability is related to others, so i'll move on and refer to this later.


Prowl lets you fade out but not remain invisible. You are visible only when approached by a hostile unit, but since no placeholders are given, we cant figure out any effective scenario. It can be upgraded in the RC to let you prowl during daytime.
^
Funny, since it was not adressed in the ability itself you could only prowl at night unless this was upgraded. But whatever.

More abilities are listed inside a spellbook. Looks like we can see some interesting stuff inside, but I would have opted to have Slash inside, since its not an active ability.


Our first ability linked with Slash, this ability lets you ignore any stunning or slowing effects if a unit nearby is bleeding. Interesting ability but the lack of placeholders doesnt give us a detailed perspective, so we'll simply go with the supposed "Sixth Sense idea"


Our second ability linked with Slash, he will transform!? into a stronger wolf with increased hit points, movement speed and attack speed.
For the first time we see an actual place-holder. Lets see lets see, 1000 hit points!? No wonder we dont see any placeholders, they are just plain absurd.
But, on staying objective here, there is a cooldown of 360, and the only requirements for unlocking this Rage form is attacking a unit once a minute (Description: When the Lupus attacks a unit [of any owner], it will draw blood and make the unit bleed).
Of any owner, so you can attack a worker and retain the effect as long as necessary, assuming someone is willing to provide you.

The Final piece of this suggestion is this ability:

"Description: Alone, a Lupus is not very valuable.  The Lupus can not attack if there are no nearby titan hunters or island defenders."
Ah, so he cant attack an enemy unit unless an a hunter or a main builder is nearby. Do you have any idea how easy these are to fulfill? In the uncommon case of 2 wolves, they would complement each other. in the case of mound or any base, the presence of a builder and a hunter solves it. Its only when the wolf is isolated and alone that he cannot attack back and initiate a slash to get away.
Not being able to attack when isolated is the only description of this ability, and its pathetic. Why would you want an ability that literally impedes you like this? It chains to slash, which gives you the ability to ignore a slow or stun, so its only real purpose is to limit abuse of slash.

000==============================000

This suggestion needs work. A lot of it. There are no placeholders, not nearly enough upgrades or abilities, no unit descriptions whatsoever and a serious lack of tactical usage. Prowling is a halfassed ripoff from satyr's permament invisibility with no drawbacks to mimic actual stealth (impeded movement speed for invisibility for example).
And you also created your very own void inside the suggestion. And this is the other upgrade listed in the RC, that improves the movement speed of your workers. Whoa, what workers!?

There is also a very big problem with the unbalance of this thing. The Wolf Within has no stated requirement, so it means your first poke turns you into a raging wolf with all the better hit points, movement speed, attack speed and what more details you forgot to place hold. Do you want the readers to give you the ideas as in completing the suggestion? Because that is a weak determination to create a unique builder, and I would expect more from a suggestion you claim to be unique.
But on the plus side, I do like the chained abilities which is a step in the right direction to a good builder. You just handled it poorly with lack of content and placeholders to give us readers something to judge.

Guntroll has a point, this suggestion needs work.

[MuDDy_PaNDa]

If its a full opinion you want from the suggestion, I'll take the time to be unnecessary and write one. Since you said at the start this should be a replacement for the Satyr, I will be using the current satyr as a standing point in my arguments, if you dont mind.

     /000=============000\
   /00          Builder           00\
 < 00         Structures         00>
   \00  Abilities & Upgrades  00/
     \000=============000/

1. Builder
In order to really start this opinion, I will be taking a glance at the most important unit, the Builder itself:

Have you forgotten to add place-holders regarding attributes such as hit points, armor, mana and MS,AS? Or is it that you left the readers to judge these by themselves and simply go with the standard?
The only thing you mentioned was his ordinary movement speed being faster than the other builders, a pretty weak trait if we cant see a placeholder to give us an extent. Well, for the sake of argument i'll simply go with +65 ms to a gnoll (20 below unwebbed titan).

2. Buildings
Okay, finally some place-holders for me to look at. Even though you still missed armor, size and costs alltogether, i'll go with the Satyr standard again.

The Shelter is basically a 300 hit point, *5* fortified armor that the builder can use as a lumbering point. With no other ?wolves?, the buildings play out piss poor in difference comparison to the Satyr. I need not say anything more in regards to this, but the upgrades will hopefully be better to talk about.

3. Abiliites & Upgrades
Seems like it is your shining point of the suggestion, so lets focus on it.

The ability lets you draw blood and inflict a dps on the enemy. No place-holders are listed this time either.
Reading the suggestion confirms this ability is related to others, so i'll move on and refer to this later.


Prowl lets you fade out but not remain invisible. You are visible only when approached by a hostile unit, but since no placeholders are given, we cant figure out any effective scenario. It can be upgraded in the RC to let you prowl during daytime.
^
Funny, since it was not adressed in the ability itself you could only prowl at night unless this was upgraded. But whatever.

More abilities are listed inside a spellbook. Looks like we can see some interesting stuff inside, but I would have opted to have Slash inside, since its not an active ability.


Our first ability linked with Slash, this ability lets you ignore any stunning or slowing effects if a unit nearby is bleeding. Interesting ability but the lack of placeholders doesnt give us a detailed perspective, so we'll simply go with the supposed "Sixth Sense idea"


Our second ability linked with Slash, he will transform!? into a stronger wolf with increased hit points, movement speed and attack speed.
For the first time we see an actual place-holder. Lets see lets see, 1000 hit points!? No wonder we dont see any placeholders, they are just plain absurd.
But, on staying objective here, there is a cooldown of 360, and the only requirements for unlocking this Rage form is attacking a unit once a minute (Description: When the Lupus attacks a unit [of any owner], it will draw blood and make the unit bleed).
Of any owner, so you can attack a worker and retain the effect as long as necessary, assuming someone is willing to provide you.

The Final piece of this suggestion is this ability:

"Description: Alone, a Lupus is not very valuable.  The Lupus can not attack if there are no nearby titan hunters or island defenders."
Ah, so he cant attack an enemy unit unless an a hunter or a main builder is nearby. Do you have any idea how easy these are to fulfill? In the uncommon case of 2 wolves, they would complement each other. in the case of mound or any base, the presence of a builder and a hunter solves it. Its only when the wolf is isolated and alone that he cannot attack back and initiate a slash to get away.
Not being able to attack when isolated is the only description of this ability, and its pathetic. Why would you want an ability that literally impedes you like this? It chains to slash, which gives you the ability to ignore a slow or stun, so its only real purpose is to limit abuse of slash.

000==============================000

This suggestion needs work. A lot of it. There are no placeholders, not nearly enough upgrades or abilities, no unit descriptions whatsoever and a serious lack of tactical usage. Prowling is a halfassed ripoff from satyr's permament invisibility with no drawbacks to mimic actual stealth (impeded movement speed for invisibility for example).
And you also created your very own void inside the suggestion. And this is the other upgrade listed in the RC, that improves the movement speed of your workers. Whoa, what workers!?

There is also a very big problem with the unbalance of this thing. The Wolf Within has no stated requirement, so it means your first poke turns you into a raging wolf with all the better hit points, movement speed, attack speed and what more details you forgot to place hold. Do you want the readers to give you the ideas as in completing the suggestion? Because that is a weak determination to create a unique builder, and I would expect more from a suggestion you claim to be unique.
But on the plus side, I do like the chained abilities which is a step in the right direction to a good builder. You just handled it poorly with lack of content and placeholders to give us readers something to judge.

Guntroll has a point, this suggestion needs work.

i agree with most of what you said but,

Guntroll has a point, this suggestion needs work.

he wasnt helping anything at all, just trolling.