Champion workers

[Aflacduck]

If you're not shelter denying at this point you're doing it wrong.

I never shelter det anymore, and neither does anyone I know unless it's an IH.


Too much effort.

[RuNm]

Aflac is right, only if you really want to deny do you shelter det, but then you have to have a tempting distraction or more walls for yet more feed so you can deny the feed. Thus you have your sad little feed paradox

[Frankjg]

How come Champion Workers resemble as the normal Morph workers?
Kind of pointless to have Champion Morph Workers when normal workers are faster and seeding the champion workers is terrible.

I suggest that Champion Morph Workers should have a better spell resistance than Normal Workers.

I believe the only reeason that morphling has more than one type of worker at this point would be for loading the towers.

Obviously, you would put the low cost regular workers in the towers and lumber with champions since they get the hp and harvest time upgrades.

[PoNy]

How come Champion Workers resemble as the normal Morph workers?
Kind of pointless to have Champion Morph Workers when normal workers are faster and seeding the champion workers is terrible.

I suggest that Champion Morph Workers should have a better spell resistance than Normal Workers.

I believe the only reeason that morphling has more than one type of worker at this point would be for loading the towers.

Obviously, you would put the low cost regular workers in the towers and lumber with champions since they get the hp and harvest time upgrades.

You can only put normal harvesters inside the towers.
The champion workers were added later and weren't given the ability to enter towers.

[Frankjg]

The way morphling champion workers work gave me an idea for a way to reform how champion workers in general work.

My idea was that instead of a incredibly resilient worker that you can seed without ever needing to rebuild anything, you make them into what you would expect a worker to be a little later on in the game at the cost of increased food. Here is what I was thinking:

Champion Worker
- Health: 75
- Cost: 15 food
- Does NOT benefit from lumbering upgrades
- Does NOT benefit from health upgrades
- Health regen is VERY low
- No attack
- Abilites: 50% magic resistance; Detonate

With this worker, you would have workers to seed that aren't overly resilient (only two nukes) but will still bring in lumber at a slower pace to compensate the lack of rebuilding a lumber base. Keep in mind that these numbers are pretty much just placeholders, and it's the concept that I really wanted to voice.

[Neco]

Morphs champions are perfectly fine balance-wise. If Panda's champion workers had lower health, then there would be no problem there either...

Why are people trying to come up with amazing ideas just for a simple solution?

[Frankjg]

Morphs champions are perfectly fine balance-wise. If Panda's champion workers had lower health, then there would be no problem there either...

Why are people trying to come up with amazing ideas just for a simple solution?

I wasn't suggesting that idea for morph champs, they're just what gave me the idea. What I suggested was for other champion workers.

[Cruncher]

Morphs champions are perfectly fine balance-wise. If Panda's champion workers had lower health, then there would be no problem there either...

Why are people trying to come up with amazing ideas just for a simple solution?
[/quote
like I said reduce health to 75 and be done

[Neco]

Morphs champions are perfectly fine balance-wise. If Panda's champion workers had lower health, then there would be no problem there either...

Why are people trying to come up with amazing ideas just for a simple solution?

I wasn't suggesting that idea for morph champs, they're just what gave me the idea. What I suggested was for other champion workers.

"The other champion workers" being Panda's, which I mentioned. The only reason Panda even has champion workers is to get the initial lumber required to build the RC and proceed. If they had reduced health, then they would still be unique but no one could bitch about how they are unnukable a lower levels.

I'm sorry if I come across as trying to shoot your idea down, but the necessity is just not there.

[Coaster_Man]

Erm, morph champs always lumber slower then the regular ones, even after lumber upgrades and yet you still get HALF of them /6food.  So for a lumber base stand point, it is useless to get them.  But of course, it helps to get champs wit hp ups later.

[theorchero]

champ works are pretty much fine, with the new settings in place that restrict the amount of pandas to 1 (or 2)
and if you still want to bitch, just reduce the magic resistence

[theholysmighter]

What about demos harvester?

[RuNm]

What about demos harvester?

NO, leave Demo the hell alone, hes fine with his workers, don't make it even more of a pain in the ass to balance gold and lumber with him than it is already. 

[Smygarn]

I would think that Magnataur has greater issues handling the balance there than demon does.

I would go as far as to reduce the hit points on champion workers to 50 and remove their attack.
Because they already benefit from not requiring as much space and can be hidden practically inside just 2 seed spots. You do not have to manage walling, structure denying, rebuilding which gives you more time to stay offensive around gold mine (That otherwise would be spent rebuilding lumberbases).

Their additional hit points and ability to attack unlike regular workers gives the player the luxury of anti-nuke harassment and comfortable denies. Which is too much to give to a worker.
There are workers with less numbers than champion workers yet still are not gifted with any of this. What makes the champion workers so deserving of the increased hit points that Goblin and Pizzly workers do not deserve?
Because champion workers just are so much less that they deserve to survive any single nuke? Because Panda needs them to deny his shelters? Get real, those are not what a worker should have. A real original twist would be enabling arachnid champion workers for instance to burrow down and get increased magic resistance and hit point regen (Yeah its crap but its better than what they have now).

[PoNy]

I like the arachnid burrow idea, theirs a lot of utility for it.

Pizzly needs to be balanced accordingly to it's feed or reduce feed.

Panda champs need reduced health and have the two already available upgrades bring it back up.

Succubus', well they aren't just harvesters though not much people use them, they do quite a bit of damage when upgraded.

[RuNm]

They do 70 with all the upgrades last I checked

In Neco's version, i didn't happen to notice champs for arachnid anymore 

[SuramarXStealth]

Give champion workers the same stats as Pizzly (experience gain included). Yes they produce less lumber but the fact that you only need 5 of them is, IMO, the main reason people tend to use them. It is a lot quicker to just throw a champ or two (5 in the case of the seed slightly northeast of the base above mound) then to constantly have to rebuild a broken lumber base or make a bunch of seeds, not only taking time, but risking getting caught by the titan if he is MIA while navigating to said seeds.

A few things may come of this:

1) Champ workers are not as used since they give a hefty amount of EXP
2) Champ workers are still used but smart Pandas will spread them out


I do agree something needs to be done, they are too powerful for early game. A good panda can give absolutely no feed to the titan because of this for the majority of the game, with absolutely no effort on his behalf. Other builders need to actively deny lumber bases and even then the titan gets some walls to feed on.

Another suggestion would be to keep the health but remove the spell resistance, or keep spell resistance and remove the health. The two together are a little much.



Also, slightly on topic. Do lumber upgrades effect champ workers? I could never tell and nobody has been able to give me a definitive answer.

Answering your question: yes they do. At a very good rate after arc, they harvest as fast as a normal worker does, if not slightly faster (this was in 3.0.6a when i did it, may have been changed since then)

[Gwypaas]

Aflac is right, only if you really want to deny do you shelter det, but then you have to have a tempting distraction or more walls for yet more feed so you can deny the feed. Thus you have your sad little feed paradox

Upgraded walls feed more than unupgraded.

What I usually do if I want to minimize feed during the early to first part of mid game is that I make a wood base using 2 unupgraded walls on each entrance and then setting up everything inside to deny. With this setup I can det and deny a full base before the minion/titan gets in depending on their level. This also makes the lumber requirement for me way lower which is something I try to do in every decision of the game. 200 wood for 4 walls or 600 for 2 upgraded means that the later is extremely inefficient.

This is the reason I rarely upgrade any walls at all, they give more feed and the hit on my lumber when I want to base later does not outweight the gain if you just do some last hitting on them to keep the titan from getting too much gold. Considering that megas have 900 range and if you base in the right spot you can keep on adding megas for a very long time still having them in range means.

[Coaster_Man]

Upgraded walls may give more feed, but let's say its the start of the game and the titan goes to your lumber base. Since he's level 2, it will take forever for him to kill the wall, and all the while everyone gets gold.

[Gwypaas]

Upgraded walls may give more feed, but let's say its the start of the game and the titan goes to your lumber base. Since he's level 2, it will take forever for him to kill the wall, and all the while everyone gets gold.

That's why I use two walls since using two unupgraded takes only a little bit less time than one upgraded to kill.

[Coaster_Man]

Upgraded walls may give more feed, but let's say its the start of the game and the titan goes to your lumber base. Since he's level 2, it will take forever for him to kill the wall, and all the while everyone gets gold.

That's why I use two walls since using two unupgraded takes only a little bit less time than one upgraded to kill.

but 2g

[Gwypaas]

Upgraded walls may give more feed, but let's say its the start of the game and the titan goes to your lumber base. Since he's level 2, it will take forever for him to kill the wall, and all the while everyone gets gold.

That's why I use two walls since using two unupgraded takes only a little bit less time than one upgraded to kill.

but 2g

I value sawing 400 wood on each woodbase I make more than the titan getting 2g.