Champion workers

[kyleep]

It takes 3 nukes to kill em.  People  just toss them at seed spots.  And I don't think the lumbering rate is that bad considering it will never be disturbed and you don't have to spend lumber on walls to protect them.
And I don't know why they have the ability to attack.

I suggest lowering their life and removing their ability to attack things.

[GunTroll]

no they are fine and pandas cyclone should last 10s instead of 3 secs

[VAMPSI]

cyclone 10 sec.. lolwut? 3 seconds is more than enough

[theholysmighter]

cyclone 10 sec.. lolwut? 3 seconds is more than enough

[Aflacduck]

no they are fine and pandas cyclone should last 10s instead of 3 secs

I completely agree.

[VAMPSI]

10 seconds is WAAAAAAY too much..

[GodOfChickens]

trolling is obvious.

[Jux.Mage]

The point of Champion workers was for more wood, but longer wood chopping time.

Lowering their life and removing their ability to attack is bullshit.
There is a reason why they cost more food than normal workers, right?

[Zen1400]

Is there also a reason that they are completely immune to any early game feed? Its stupid, you can't actually effect any early game lumber of a panda because of that reason. Almost every other race you can just walk by and nuke a seed, but you have to stop and purposefully go for panda seeds.

[Not.Carnerox]

Remove 6food workers, and remove the attack of champion workers.

[Aflacduck]

I would like to point out that lee followed me with a champion worker early game a bit ago and I couldn't do anything about it since they take 2-3 hits to kill.

[kyleep]

I would like to point out that lee followed me with a champion worker early game a bit ago and I couldn't do anything about it since they take 2-3 hits to kill.

It takes 3 normal hits to kill em as well in early stage of game.

[VAMPSI]

Than give the champs 100 HP so 2 nukes dead

[GodOfChickens]

Give it less hp but with more magic resistance so titan can't nuke it too easily but can one shot it at least.

[Cruncher]

make them lumber 0.1 seconds faster

[theholysmighter]

Stop ranting on fucking evrything! idiots.

[Playerof]

Champs are fine.
I myself hate having tiny amounts of lumber because of only using champs as panda.

[VAMPSI]

When I'm lazy to seed than I make 2 or 3 champs and other normal

[kyleep]

So the argument is that that their lumber capability is crap?  Contrary to what you might think, an undisturbed lumber base that requires no upgraded wall to prevent deny is actually pretty dam good and sufficient.

In addition, it's ez mode deny. Has bullshit potential of early worker block/trap.  Can kill mini-minions if they try to enter.  Can attack ward.  Pretty much completely denies titan of feed, unless he chooses to bring2 other minions to nuke 1 spot; in this case, this can even be minimized by just spreading out the champion workers to 1 worker at each spot.

You still want to tell me that they are fine?

[Not.Carnerox]

So the argument is that that their lumber capability is crap?  Contrary to what you might think, an undisturbed lumber base that requires no upgraded wall to prevent deny is actually pretty dam good and sufficient.

In addition, it's ez mode deny. Has bullshit potential of early worker block/trap.  Can kill mini-minions if they try to enter.  Can attack ward.  Pretty much completely denies titan of feed, unless he chooses to bring2 other minions to nuke 1 spot; in this case, this can even be minimized by just spreading out the champion workers to 1 worker at each spot.

You still want to tell me that they are fine?

Lee types the truth.
Champions are beyond annoying, and should be removed or at least remove their damage and slightly reduce their health.

[Onahail]

Give champion workers the same stats as Pizzly (experience gain included). Yes they produce less lumber but the fact that you only need 5 of them is, IMO, the main reason people tend to use them. It is a lot quicker to just throw a champ or two (5 in the case of the seed slightly northeast of the base above mound) then to constantly have to rebuild a broken lumber base or make a bunch of seeds, not only taking time, but risking getting caught by the titan if he is MIA while navigating to said seeds.

A few things may come of this:

1) Champ workers are not as used since they give a hefty amount of EXP
2) Champ workers are still used but smart Pandas will spread them out


I do agree something needs to be done, they are too powerful for early game. A good panda can give absolutely no feed to the titan because of this for the majority of the game, with absolutely no effort on his behalf. Other builders need to actively deny lumber bases and even then the titan gets some walls to feed on.

Another suggestion would be to keep the health but remove the spell resistance, or keep spell resistance and remove the health. The two together are a little much.



Also, slightly on topic. Do lumber upgrades effect champ workers? I could never tell and nobody has been able to give me a definitive answer.

[Aflacduck]

If an entire team is composed of builders or supporters that have access to champion workers or otherwise low-feed ways to make workers, (Radio for example) then it truly does not matter that you lumber a bit slower, because you completely gimp the titan's primary source of feed and he takes a much bigger hit than you do.

As stated before, champion workers are invulnerable to any offence on part of the titan (they can easily take down mini-minis.) and can just re-spawn if the titan tries to nuke them down.  Had I not gotten a kill in the aforementioned game, Lee could have easily followed me with a champion worker and had access to what is essentially a free maphack, and all he had to do was stay close enough to see me but keep a slight watch over the unit to make sure I didn't clobber it 2-3 times for the kill.

Champs are fine.
I myself hate having tiny amounts of lumber because of only using champs as panda.

The issue with your point is that you aren't empathizing with the titan. AKA, you aren't looking at it from the perspective of the builder and the perspective of the titan, and only looking at it from the builder side is going to skew it towards them. It is logic like this that kept Island Defense in favor of builders for such a long time. This is especially true since no editors that I knew personally could play a competent titan, but knew how to play builder to a decent degree, causing them to only have the capability of viewing a situation from the builder side.


Although I resent TLDR's, I know many people on this forum can't read more than a line at a time.

TLDR: Don't try to form an argument regarding balance until you analyze the situation from both teams and how it affects them in relation to eachother.



I'll do some number crunching tomorrow with Panda builder to see how much lumber is lost when switching from regular workers and champions if I can fix my damn game. The titan loses 100% of his feed from the individual builder, and the builder loses, I would assume, 30% of lumber accumulation.

[Striker]

It was made by Panda. nuff said.

[Aflacduck]

It was made by Panda. nuff said.

Thanks for your insight 

[Playerof]

Hmmm i see what you mean.
You could just take its damage, armor and 150 life away.
The minmins could wreck them and they couldent be used to follow.
Also it could be nuked decently easly